CDAO Pune has started sending worksheet of the arrears calculation. The methodology used is under scrutiny as there is lot of variation between the arrears being recd within the same course in particular and across all officers from the lowest of Rs 2407/- to highest 1.82 lacs as informed to us.
Kindly bear with us as we are waiting for more work sheets from the ranks of Capt to Brig. Tweaking is tremendous and could lead to further litigation.
Kindly bear with us as we are waiting for more work sheets from the ranks of Capt to Brig. Tweaking is tremendous and could lead to further litigation.
30 comments:
The main issue that i see is the difference in pension as a result of Rank pay enhancement (based on existing CDA's method of calculation).Let us say an exiting Lt Col , Col & Brig who was already holding that rank on 01 Jan 1986 & & whose pay scales would have been refixed on 01 Jan 1986 by including the RP,retires on 01 Nov 1986 (after 10 months of service in the new pay scale (just to be on the safe side),
As in these ranks there would have been a substantial jump in their basic +RP ,they would get considerable increase in their pension .
How ever there may be number of cases of Majors,Lt Col & Brig who pick up their ranks say in mid 1987, would not get the same pension since their basic plus rank pay would not have gone up so much.
While i don't have real data to back up my hypothesis, this certainly would have happened.
Hence there would be certainly a need to look at the minimum pensions of various ranks for 4 & 5 PC at least
Sir , Please let us know the action plan for serving officers who have been commisoned during 1V PC ( after 1986) . What about the resulting anomaly in the V PC and VI PC due to incorrect fixation in 1V PC.
@ RDOA. Sir, the payments being recived are nowhere near the DGL that was in circulation in Nov 2012.We must be aware from the judgement what was awargded and how the calculation is to be made. All norms are bring violated as salary is paid based on SAI which has not been ammended hence it is partial implementation . Can we
know the actual way arrears are to be calculated so that we can compare when we ger the arrears. Regards
dk said
sir,
what action being initiated for officers commissioned pre 86 and were not capt on 1-1-86
Respected RDOA,
Indeed it happy and re-assuring to see the latest action of RDOA in our urge to get the due justice, which other wise was to be given, once SC gave the ruling.
But sir there are some systemic issues which needs to be adressed in the intrest of our democracy, and our countries progress. that is "can some individuals in the helm of affairs, use their personal ego to harm the major junk of defence employees just see them below" can they bletently violate the SC orders.
See the example below:-
As per SAI 1/S/87, the min. and max of integrated scale is Rs 2300 n 5100. the min. service required to achieve Rs 4950/- basic pay as brigadier is 23 yrs. with the implementation of SC, as per Govt. interpretation as on 1-1-86, the Brig. basic pay will have to be increased to Rs 6150/- (i.e. BP 4950 + RP Rs 1200). Where as the highest of scale is only Rs 5100/-
Question is without ammending the pay scale, how such increase in BP is effected? if the Brig. continue in same rank for more than one yrs how the increment is given beyond the scale? is it given as stag increment? if so can one get stagenated the moment he becomes Brig.
Really i wonder what can of adhoc'ism it is? kindly assure us that all these points are in RDOA's attention. The most hearting matter is no one take we veterns seriousally.
Pl let us know the basic salary of the offer who retired in August 1985, with twenty two yeas of service . There are lot of offers retired in 1985 with more than 21years of service.
It is surprising that RDOA is totally silent on the non implementation of the SC order in letter and spirit, i.e, instead of from 01 Jan 1986 it is implemented on 01 Jan 1986. Also, all veterans are only bothered about counting the pennies received by them. What about those who became Capt after 01 Jan 1986? Whether RDOA doing anything?
@Khushal: The issue is, pre 01Jan86 retirees can benefit from the rank-pay arrears only if the pensions of their ranks post 01 Jan 86 go up due to refixation of bp wef 01 Jan 86 on account of the parity that had been implemented at the the time. But, how will the pensions go up for the respective ranks as a rule unless the IV cpc payscale gets amended?
Sure, individual officers who were serving on 01 Jan 86 and have their BP revised upwards wef 01 Jan 86 now due to the re-fixation would have a higher last pay drawn and be eligible for a higher pension as a result.
But, I don't see, with the present GOI order, how the pensions for different ranks, for pre IV cpc retirees, can be affected.
Can anyone shed some light on this?
Suggest,based on feedback received from officers who have been paid arrears,RDOA may please post on their website rank wise the actual entitlements based on their calculations.This would clarify the position and also enable all members of RDOA to take a call on further course of action.URGENT ACTION PLEASE
As i had expressed in the past-rational understanding,one may say - my understanding ; of clarity being sought by SATPAL @ & DHOOP *:-
@ The scale of that integrated pay 2300-5100 by 4 th CPC has inbuilt NFFU for all officers up to rk of Brig. that is,integrated pay in that scale is proportional to length of svc- to all officers up to Brig (rk pay is higher to higher rk ).to say again , an officer in that bracket of rks ( 2/Lt - Brig) with more svc than an officer of higher rk,would be eligible for higher int pay. that is the RULE/PRINCIPLE (inbuilt/inherent) . Those,with a premise that HOW CAN A LT COL WITH MORE SVC SAY 26 YRS GET HIGHER PAY (4650 ) THAN A COL OF 20 YRS SVC (4500 )?????,and that biased view has been the genesis of 27 years of FAUXPASS . In fact in yr 1995 a Lt Col with say 30 yrs svc got higher int pay than a Col of 20 yrs. Where as, on 1.1.86 they prevented that with bias and short sight. This was the route cause of that faulty pay fixation.
Now coming to u scale change ? if the former rule/principle is applied/followed ,there is no problem with scale. the Brig and Col have already got their fixation RIGHT in 1986 with the invocation of clause of min of 4500 &4950 for svc of 20 &23 yrs.
Step-ups and stagnation increments are available,to over come any eventuality of disagreements/anomalies.
YEAH,Cols and Brigs with more svc above 20/23 yrs would get higher fixation than 4500/4950.
Thus ,that scale is still good enough.of course enhancement is welcome.
* About pensions of pre 1.1.86.when the re -fixation is done ,minimum of Lt,Capt ,Maj & Lt Col(both ts and sel )would go up .Thus pension will be based on the minimum of those rks on 1.1.86.
THAT IS RATIONAL AND LOGIC.of course any thing else may pop up as things are happening against all established RULES, PRINCIPLES ......ETC,
There is no need for any further feedback on what individual officers have got in arrears. One has just got additional rank pay with re-fixation of basic on 1-1-86 in conformity with the GoI Dec 2012 letter. With this invariably the increase in pay gets fully absorbed with promotion wherein the increase in scale (in accordance with 4th CPC scales)cater for a pay jump that is invariably higher than the rank pay (definitely so in case of captains on 1-1-86). For majors and above there MAY have been some increase but that would depend on individual cases. Otherwise there is nothing more to know about the case.
Implementation of Hon'ble SC Judement dated 04/09/2012
How pay has been revised on 04/09/12.
A. Existing emoluments as on l/1/86 ie Basic pay, DA, ADA, Adhoc DA,
Interim Relief l and II are added
B. 20 % of Basic pay is added to it
C. Pay is now fixed at next stage above total emoluments so arrived
Earlier the rank pay was deducted from sum of A and B above before fixing the pay in next above stage, This time Ran Pay has not been deducted.
Example I
Pay of Capt A in the integrated pay scale( 2300 -100 -3900-150-5100) on
1/l/86.
Basic Pay 1450
DA,/ADA/Adhoc DA 1450
IR-I&II 215
20%of BP 290
Total 3405
Earlier pay was fixed at Rs 3300, which is next stage above 3205 (3405 minus 200).Now Pay fixed at Rs 3500,which is next stage above 3405.
5-CPC Orders-At the time of promotion,Basic pay is fixed in the pay scale
of higher rank and Rank Pay of higher rank is admitted.
@bala:"..minimum of Lt,Capt ,Maj & Lt Col(both ts and sel )would go up..";
That would have happened only if the payscale had been revised upwards. The reality is the minimum of each rank has not changed. So let us not kid ourselves on that score.
Pensions would be based on pay scales, not on some individual Capt, Maj, Lt Col, Col, Brig who might get his fixation revised to a higher level as on 01 Jan 86.
That is what the GOI letter states.
Dear vetern Friends n RDOA,
From the number of messages being blogged, the main relavance of the rank pay n further anomoly being created by implementing court decision is lost. I request my friends to focus. In brief the following is necessary:-
1) redefenition of minimum basic pay in para 6 of SAI/1/S/87 for each rank to add rank pay equalant which has beed deducted while deciding min. basic for each rank, i.e for capt min. 5yrs basic pay rs 3000/- (2800+200), similarly for Brig. min. yrs 23, min. basic pay Rs 6150/- (4950 + 1200). i.e. para 6 needs ammendment.
2) The scale needs to be changed to accomodate revised basic pay due to addition of rank pay eg. for brig higher of the integrated scale should be rs 6300/- instead of rs 5100/- (i.e. 4950 + RP 1200 + one increment of rs 150 as was existing)
3)When the basic increases in one CPC, proportionatly basic pay has to increase in subseqauent CPC as well. i.e. the last pay drawn in previous cpc becomes a basis for next cpc basic pay.
4) 5th CPC also suffer from the same anomoly of revised rank pay is being deducted from total emolument. trying to split the hair by logic that not taken up in dhanpalan for 5cpc fall short of the principle of natural justice. Hence in 5 cpc also correction is needed.
5) Due to above fact every officer commissioned up to 31-12-2005 is eligiable for correction in BP and arrears of rank pay up to 31-12-05.
KINDLY NOTE THAT SC HAD UPHELD THE DUDUCTION OF RANK PAY EQUALANT AMOUNT OUT OF TOTAL EMOLMUNT WHILE DECIDING THE REVISED BASIC PAY IS INCORRECT N RANK PAY IS TO BE PAID IN ADDITION TO BASIC PAY.
from number of distorated messages, i am affraid the main point is not lost. one day the above only has to happen. may be some of us may not be there to see that being aged. but 'satyameva jayate'. my request to RDOA is not to waist more time. this time file contempt petition at the earliest. or all all veterns to file case in their own places pan India. the country must know the way thier children are tread by selfish group.
jai hind.
Dear Friends
Imp notification of CDA(O)is reproduced below.
Col Pardaman Singh
The implementation of Hon'ble Supreme Court Judgment dt.04/09/2012
is under process in this office. An exhaustive list of affected Officer is still awaited from AHQ. However payment has been issued to 9992 retired officers.
Due-drawn statement with interest details will soon be sent to officer's
email id or postal address (where email id is not available with this office). Proof
of IT deducted at source will be dispatched to the officers from April 2013. LPCCum-Data Sheet for issue of revised PPO will soon be forwarded to PCDA(P) in
case officer's last pay changes.
Officers are requested to bear with us till the time they receive due-drawn
statement. This office will be in a better position to address the officers concern at that time.
Can we jointly consider forming a Union of Vetrans( under the geis of RDOA) affiliated to any Non Congress Political Party to fight for addressal to our greviances , this is the ripe time ahed of the Elections. All vetrans are released from Bonded Labour (Army Act) on completion of 3 yers of retirement bexcept applicability of Official Secrets Act. Regards
@ Ravi Roa
I second the above proposal for consideration.
sir, we want to know if RDOA going to supreme court again as govt is fooling us by giving arrears for 4th pay commission where as disease continues to 5th pay commission as well , in fact material difference will be made to all when this matter is addressed for 5th pay commission as well.
pl also tell us if RDOA need any contribution from all affected officers to fight the case.
Sir, my only query is that why Indian Army Top Brasses aren't making any statements. What are they waiting for, or they have sold their morality in the hands of MOD.
Sir, my only query is that why Indian Army Top Brasses aren't making any statements. What are they waiting for, or they have sold their morality in the hands of MOD.
Please read 4 parts of the WHITE PAPER on the rank pay issue at sharad10525.blogspot.in by a very senior officer.
@RDOA
Sir, The white Paper is good ammo to fire our Gun, even all officers pre & post 1.1.86 will join in, Regards
Silence on the part of Armed Forces top brass?It appears they have no interest. Are they so weak kneed?
, MRP said....
@Satpal Sharma 26/02/1996. It is now that you have understood the case. The judgement of Kerala High Court rules only about re-fixation of pay as on 01/01/1986 from III CPC. The procedure adopted for re-fixation of pay was as per recommendations of IV CPC and accepted by the Government. Formulas adopted was same as for Central Government employees.There were lot of problem faced by officers specially superseded officers of the rank of Maj and they ere stagnating at the maximum of pay scale of 1450-1800. To give some relief to these officers in 1983 it was decided by the Govt on the recommendation of then COAS Gen Rao, that service required for time scale promotion to the rank of Maj and Lt Col was reduced to 13 and 21 years. The introduction of integrated pay scale was one of the best thing happened in IV CPC. As per recommendations of IV CPC the rank pay was to be given in addition to pay fixed as per SAI 1/S/87. It is not deduction of rank pay alone that has played havoc but it is bifurcation of pay scales as per rank as per recommendation of Army HQ BECAUSE mindset of officers of higher rank is that the officer of junior rank should not draw more pay than his senior rank irrespective of length of service. If you closely observe upto 1995 a major and time scale Lt Col having 21 tears or more service was getting same pay and they got the same pension on their retirement till 31 Dec 1995. As a result of bifurcation of pay scales as per SAI 2/S/98 the benifit of IV CPC was lost and majors were at big loss in their pension. Taking advantage of this, in VI CPC the civilians highjacked the agenda and instead of rank pay they got grade pay and rank pay was denied to Army Officers. Further the edge in minimum of starting pay of Class I officer and Lt was also removed. Further, although VI CPC has recommended for revision of pay/pension the same formulas but the Govt devised different formulas which resulted in lot of litigation which is still pending before the Hon'ble Supreme Court.
To expect anything from RDOA at this stage is not possible. There is no contempt of the Court. The Govt might have submitted so many false hoods in the affidavit but the Apex Court has rejected contention of Govt and the issues raised by the Govt were not adjudicated. In Maj Dhanpalan's case, he has raised only issue of correct fixation of pay as per SAI 1/S/87 without deduction of Rank Pay and that has been addressed.Those officers who were in service as on 01.01.1996 PCDA (O) HAS CORRECTLY REFIXED THEIR PAY wef 01/01/1996. So far as revision of pay scale or pensionary benefits for pre-2006 are concerned, separate litigation has to be undertaken.
These are my personal views and I am willing to contribute to RDOA, in case they decide to take up fresh litigation.
MANGE PANGHAL said.
in my recent comments, please read service required for time scale promotion to Maj as 11 years and accordingly the Integrated Pay scale of 2300-100-3900-150-4200-EB-150-5100 was introduced as per SAI 1/S/87 for Officers from 2/Lt to Brig.
The essence of supreme court judgement regarding rank pay was to rectify the anomaly that had created pay differential and status disparity between central government employees and defense officers that had crept in after the implementation of the IV pay commission report.This was to be rectified by refixation of pay scales of defense officers over the IV, V, and VI pay commission awards.However the government letter has totally ignored the judgement of the supreme court and issued a truncated order to deny the rightful dues applicable to the defense officers. To avoid further litigation it is suggested that the concerned authorities to withdraw the ill conceived letter or issue a corrigendum to the same thus paying the correct dues as envisaged in the supreme court order and also resorting pay and status parity as it was at the time of III pay commission.
@surinder singh: "This was to be rectified by refixation of pay scales of defense officers over the IV, V, and VI pay commission awards..."
How do you know or say that? Where is it written in the judgement or the affidavits made public so far?
Did the original petition seek an amendment of the payscale?
Everyone here has his own interpretation and firm conviction about what the whole litigation was about.
That is why, RDOA should definitely consider clarifying the matter for all using simple language so people don't fret needlessly and go around in circles.
,MANGE PENGHAL..
@Surinder Singh... Maj Dhanpalan has never sought revision of pay scales decided by the Govt. He only sought that Rank Pay deducted from total emoluments of III CPC before fixing the pay in the integrated scale of 2300-5100 was wrong and his plea was accepted by Hon'ble Kerala High Court and affirmed by the Apex Court in its judgement dated 08.03.2010 and 04.09.2012. The Govt by adopting delay tactics achieved its objective of reducing the burden of interest from 1987 TO 2005. @ Dhoop has said rightly and let the RDOA come out in plain and simple language.
@surinder singh; @dhoop; @MANGE PANGHAL: It may not have been so clearly stated in the petitions, affidavits or the judgement, but not amending the scales could lead to lots of legal issues for the Govt such as a case of discrimination between two officers with the same service getting different basic pay within the same pay commission period.
A Capt in service as on 01 Jan 86 with 'n' no. of years of service would get a higher BP than a Lt getting promoted on 01 July 86 also with 'n' years of service.
But this whole matter may have to be represented legally as stated in the RDOA blog post.
But, it's true, clarifications from RDOA would be most welcome.
@RDOA:Sir, I feel time has come for filing the contempt of court petition or else it may be too late!
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