1. Issue of letter by GOI/MoD dt 26 Nov 12 says only of compliance of SC orders of 4/9/12 on the Rank Pay Case.Does not talk of implementation.
2. Modality and Methodology of payment is still being worked out.
3. SC order has not been implemented; there is clear violation; and so it becomes fit case for filing of contempt. Leave the contempt filing to RDOA.
4. RDOA is well versed with the case and knows all the pitfalls with answers to tackle them supported by documentary evidence and affidavits filed by UOI.
5. All are requested not to initiate any action or file any petition anywhere in the country relating to the case as it will become subjudice again and delay matters further.
6. Interest of all offrs starting with pre 1986, as on 01/01/86, who joined service after 86, who got promoted after 1/1/86 is on our radar. Same holds good for pre and post 1996 (V CPC) and pre & post 2006 (6 CPC). Offrs need not worry. No need to feel 'Hamara kya hoga'. We have come this far and we will 'Mop up' till pouch button is closed and payment reaches bank acct of each and every officer and to widows/legal heirs.
7. Please do not float unnecessary emails giving your own assessment and confusing others. No one is better in the knowhow than RDOA.
8. Kindly do not give any statement on national TV channels/media related to the case.Leave that to RDOA. We have our links and will do so at appropiate time.
9. Avoid any negotiation or back channel diplomacy on the subject case with anybody.
10. It is NOW or NEVER to restore lost ground. Kindly bear with us.
IN Service RDOA
2. Modality and Methodology of payment is still being worked out.
3. SC order has not been implemented; there is clear violation; and so it becomes fit case for filing of contempt. Leave the contempt filing to RDOA.
4. RDOA is well versed with the case and knows all the pitfalls with answers to tackle them supported by documentary evidence and affidavits filed by UOI.
5. All are requested not to initiate any action or file any petition anywhere in the country relating to the case as it will become subjudice again and delay matters further.
6. Interest of all offrs starting with pre 1986, as on 01/01/86, who joined service after 86, who got promoted after 1/1/86 is on our radar. Same holds good for pre and post 1996 (V CPC) and pre & post 2006 (6 CPC). Offrs need not worry. No need to feel 'Hamara kya hoga'. We have come this far and we will 'Mop up' till pouch button is closed and payment reaches bank acct of each and every officer and to widows/legal heirs.
7. Please do not float unnecessary emails giving your own assessment and confusing others. No one is better in the knowhow than RDOA.
8. Kindly do not give any statement on national TV channels/media related to the case.Leave that to RDOA. We have our links and will do so at appropiate time.
9. Avoid any negotiation or back channel diplomacy on the subject case with anybody.
10. It is NOW or NEVER to restore lost ground. Kindly bear with us.
IN Service RDOA
39 comments:
We are with you RDOA till the arrears with interest is credited to every entitled officer both serving,retired or dead. Even if it involved monetary help, pl do keep us posted and there is no dearth of good souls who fully appreciate the noble venture of your honourable intentions. God bless and Jai Hind!
I agree!The resolution is safe in the hands of RDOA. Let us leave things to them to pursue.
Many are waiting with bated breath for fresh moves. Wishing the RDOA team and all affected the very best of luck.
BRAVO. I loudly applause your "Confidence Building" initiative & dedication of working towards common-cause with due confidence.
I request RDOA to keep us posted periodically till target is reached. This will keep under control avoidable anxieties among officers.
Pl do keep all informed @ latest prog and also post bank acct No of RDOA so that offr can deposit money for legal expenses, if required.
Bravo Zulu to RDOA
Thanks RDOA,We all serving and retired offrs incl widows stand united today ,tomorrow and in future.United we can fight for our justified entitlements wrongfully denied to us by the babus.We must also show are str as a large vote bank in this democracy and iam sure,we will emerge victorious on every front ,each and everytime....Jai Hind.
Thanks RDOA, We are with you. Even if there is Need for Monatary help can be sought for getting the Best Legal support.Today what is wanted that Implementation of This aciton must take shape. Many Have Breathed their Last. Many have Lost so many opportunities.
Specially for SSC Officers who Retired Pre-1986 Specific and Clear Orders/Notes by Def Ministry and CDA Pension will have to be issued to Banks.
Best Rgds
Capt. C S Varma
SS-19777
Well said RDOA. We fully trust you and your efforts. We are sure the SUCCESS will be ours. But we should not avoid making it a political issue with the help of Kejriwal's Party. Please do let us know of any additional contribution if you so require.
"..with the help of Kejriwal's Party..."
Oh brother!! God help the arrears initiative then.
The cabal is of the MoD, CGDA, Def/Fin and MoF it is not the caucus named.
Officials of these organisations have taken the order of the Hon'ble Supreme Court as a personal affront and therefore this defiance and grave disrespect for the Apex Court.
If I was the Solicitor General and my dignity was insulted by making me state in the Apex Court that payment would be made within 12 weeks and it was not, I would have resigned stating this as the One and Only reason.
Shri Gopal Subramaniam resigned when he was replaced by Shri Nariman.
"..Final Victory SHALL be ours..";
There we go again. First there was "Kejriwal's Party and now references to a "..Caucus..";
Where is the need to let our imaginations, and in some cases, our political biases, to run away with us?
The case has already resulted in a legal victory for RDOA and now the finishing touches are being applied. We can surely afford to wait a bit and see the results in front of our eyes.
It is reliably learnt that DGL sent by Service HQ has been out rightly rejected by MoD (Fin. It is understood that the Sc judgement is applicable to only offrs commissioned before 1.1.86 and no arrears or revision of pay beyond 31 Dec 12. If contempt is not the solution irrespective of delay or type of outcome, then what is the way ahead. RDOA is putting up any updates. Completely relying on the contents of affidavit filed by the UoI in SC and waiting for miracle to happen or expecting the Babus to mend their ways may not lead us anywehre with the current trend and combined behavioural pattern of IAS and IDAS guys? RDOA pl throw somelight ! Whole fraternity is waiting with gasped breadth .
Correction it is 31 Dec 95. regrets !
@Young50: This is not the occasion for giving in to feelings of exasperation. The blog post clearly states, "Kindly bear with us".
However, it is hard to disagree with the sentiment that more frequent updates would help to assuage feelings of anxiety and petulance amongst some of the stake-holders.
The critical thing is, has TRIPAS forwarded the DGL to MOD as directed by the MOD letters dated 26th Nov doing the rounds on the web and also summarised in this blog and does the DGL cover V & VI cpc's, post Jan 86 commissions et al?
If that step has been taken care of, the onus for the delay would lie with those trying to be revisionists in respect of the litigation.
Pay Up or Face Music, SC tells Sahara
From Times of India today by Dhananjay Mahapatra Dec 04, 2012
NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Monday gave two Sahara companies 24 hours to decide whether they would comply with the apex court's three-month-old directive to refund Rs 24,000 crore to nearly 3 crore investors through market regulator SEBI or face the consequences.
"Tell us by tomorrow (Tuesday) whether you are ready to pay up or face the music," a bench of Chief Justice Altamas Kabir and Justices S S Nijjar and J Chelameswar said, refusing to accept Sahara's readiness to deposit Rs 5,126 crore in compliance with the August 31 judgment.
The "music" which the bench referred to is real, as an application seeking initiation of contempt proceedings is pending before a bench of Justices K S Radhakrishnan and J S Khehar, which had taken a strong view of the Sahara companies trying to step around the August 31 judgment.
When Sebi counsel Arvind Datar informed the court on Monday that the market regulator had filed a contempt petition against the companies, the bench said it was more interested in ensuring return of the money to ordinary investors.
'Can't interpret our order as per your need'
A Supreme Court bench headed by the CJI, hearing the Sahara case, was unimpressed with senior advocate Gopal Subramaniam's attempts to give reasons for not complying with the earlier ruling on refunding Rs 24,000 crore to nearly 3 crore investors.
Subramaniam tried to stress on lapses on part of market regulator Sebi in helping the two Sahara companies to comply with the directions in the August 31 judgment.
The bench indicated that it had seen through the gameplan and decided to do some plain talking. "Your intention is very shaky. Your every step is shaky, we can't interpret our order according to your need," it said.
The two Sahara group companies had moved the SC on November 30, the day the three-month deadline ended for refunding Rs 24,000 crore to investors through Sebi. They came with drafts for Rs 5,126 crore to attempt to prove their bona fides as managers of the investors' money.
@Satyam Never Jayate: I think before we get all too impatient to see anyone facing any "music", it may be in order to wait for an update on where the DGL is, what does it say and who exactly is holding back on effecting the implementation of the judgement and on what authority.
Once that is clear, it'll be easy to see in which direction the triple horns of music will be pointed.
@dhoop, would send the DGL if you let me know your email ID
well the judgement said that the money to be paid within 12 weeks ......that's gone.why think of DGL? what significance does a DGL has after babus have said two hoots to SCI.CDA rep came to jabalpur & said all those commissioned after 1.1.86 need not dream as SC judgement is very very clear..
@Satyam Never Jayate: Doubtful if anyone can say with any degree of reliability that the document in their possession is an authentic DGL of GOI.
But no harm in your sharing with others by uploading whatever you have access to as a Google Documentand providing a link here or on the Military Benefits chatroll.
@dhoop, the DGL was sent to MoD about a fortnight after 4-9-2012 because MoD was reported to have the issue whether to fight further legal battles by adding figures to what it had already submitted in the additional affidavit.
Asking TRIPAS on 26-11-2012 was just a subterfuge to circumvent being slapped with a Contempt petition (now whatever happened to that?).
How the devious mind thinks is best described by what was submitted as mutual understanding in the Sahara case.
Post 26-11-2012, MoD can state, with the same lack of conviction, that methodology etc was between it and the other entities named in the MoD letter of 26-11-2012.The delay was because of those entities!!
@Satyam Never Jayate: "subterfuge"; Why should we ascribe motives? Our requirement is that the judgement should get implemented in the right spirit.
Now, he DGL which the MOD letter of 26th seeks from TRIPAS may be an amended draft basede on discussions held between various agencies (MOD Fin and DGDA come to mind) or it may be the same DGL. We are not in a position to know.
As long as TRIPAS have forwarded the DGL, perhaps along with any reservations expressed by the other parties, then the process can begin. Only with future updates from RDOA would we be able to obtain any understanding of where the matter stands.
@dhoop, its CGDA and not DGDA.
I do not ascribe motives but state facts based on the updates on this and the other blogs. Why so conciliatory?
Order of the Hon'ble SC of 4-9-2012 is clear and precise on the deadline for completion of payment.
MoD or anyone else can delay if we remain so docile. And in the meantime more of our juniors, colleagues,peers and seniors will be RIP. Two of my course-mates have died since 4-9-2012.
@Satyam Never Jayate: True, the delay in implementation is undesireable, to say the least. Only an update from RDOA can shed some light on the future course.
Some questions for thought - Who will Bell the Cat?
1) Does Supreme Court have a system to monitor implementation of its time bound judgements? If not, then how do they come to know about compliance or otherwise of their Orders?
2) How will Attorney General know that his assurance to the court has actually resulted in a default on part of the Govt and the ensuing Contempt of Court? What is his responsibility once this fact comes to his notice? Or Has he already sought court’s permission for additional time?
3) How long will RDOA remain in passive mode?
@S Chander said, "passive mode".
One only has to read the main blog post to realize RDOA ia anything but passive. Some news on the latest developments would be welcome from RDOA, though.
As FA (DS), SC judgement is applicable only to offrs in service as on 1.1.86 in the ranks of Capt to Brig and the applicable arrears would be disbursed upto a period till 31 Dec 95. Nobody else is affected and no revision of pay as on 1.1.96 and 1.1.06. This has been told to all three Service HQ reps during a presentation in South Block almost a fortnight ago. Service HQ have gone into hibernation till date. RDOA is maintaining a deafening silence. Most of us are busy blogging on China border and what Gen VK is doing in Delhi ! Jai Ho ! Is it lull before a storm or lull after a bureaucratic hurricane ? Only time will tell ! Let RDOA break its silence and put up an update !
the whole lot of discussion on this blog has created ample doubts in the minds of various catagories of vaterns , may i request some learnt brother officer to please upload the details of major dhanpalan ' s case . it will help in placing each self in the proper slot . thanks .
Single Bench judgement of Kerala HC has been upheld by Double Bench and SC and the judgement can be seen at the following link. It states as to how Rank Pay is to be treated.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxyZG9haW5kaWF8Z3g6NDE5ZTBlOGNlODYzMDE0
Dear RDOA, WE are with you in this.any help,please do inform us in what ever form is required.
But please do not keep silent for heaven's sake. we are entirely dependent on your latest inf. since that will be only authentic and assurable.
Once again WE ARE WITH YOU.
wg.cdr.v.sundaresan(retd
@HS Dogra;"..major dhanpalan ' s case.."
How will that help? Maj Dhanapalan's case was confined to IV CPC.
The important issue here is whether the original petition(s) in SC, related to the judgement currently awaiting implementation, actually stated that arrears would be due on acct of V and VI CPC as well as pensions also.
There is also the issue of the affidavit furnished by SG that touches on the subject. So, it would be futile to try and analyse based on limited knowledge.
The best way forward is known to the legal team of RDOA, but all the affected people certainly need to be kept apprised of what's going on.
@ dhoop, hsdogra,young50 et al,
As witnessed/heard from the dingy corridors of Sena Bhavan and South Block,
(1) RDOA office bearers must be constantly in touch with and aware of what are the "notings on files and viewpoints" of the entities holding up implementing the Hon'ble Supreme Court's judgment of 4-9-2012. RDOA will reveal its strategy soon.
(2)As for updates, RDOA, in its own opinion and rightly so, is not providing anything because it does not want to weaken or prejudice its and OUR case for justice. We have all fought wars and you learned gentlemen know that we never revealed plans to the adversary.Internet and this blog being accessible to all and sundry would help the adversary plant more hurdles and make this a longer-lasting even eternal war.
(3) The Hon’ble Supreme Court’s order or 8-3-2010 states “……we respectfully agree with the reasoning given therein for grant of rank pay retrospectively from 1.1.1986.”
(4) This order was challenged vide IA No.9 of 2010 which was settled by then Solicitor General Shri Gopal Subramaniam as follows: -
P R A Y E R
It is , therefore, most humbly and respectfully prayed that this Hon'ble Court may be pleased to pass the following orders:-
(a) Recall the order dated 8th March 2010;.
(b) Upon notice, re-hear all the cases on merits;
(c) Admit Writ petition Nos. ......................................, grant rule nisi and hear them finally;
(d) Call for the records of the Writ Petitions filed in the various High Courts, and after the completion of pleadings, hear the same finally;
(e) Pending further orders on the application grant an ad interim stay of the order dated 8th March 2010;
(f) Pass such other and further orders as this Hon'ble Court may deem fit and proper in the facts and circumstances of the present case.
(5) This is the content of Para 30 of the UoI’s additional affidavit: -
In these circumstances it is most respectfully submitted that Government of India is fully concerned with the grievances of the armed forces personnel however the order dated 8-3-2010 passed by this Hon’ble Court if implemented would lad to the following practical difficulties: -
(a) In the present matter, implementing the Hon’ble Court order dated 8-3-2010 would mean re-fixation of pay of not only the officers entitled to Rank Pay, but pay scales of other personnel above and below such officers would have to be revised w.e.f. 1.1.1986 firstly, and then from 1.1.1996 and 1.1.2006, i.e. at the time of subsequent pay revisions. Similar process would be carried out for revision of pension of the retired personnel.
(6) The same legal team that won the case and obtained orders of 8-3-2010 and 4-9-2012 will prepare a watertight case - whether of contempt of court only or also whether some other aspects like going against the spirit and content of the affidavits UoI filed the Hon'ble Supreme Court. Was a false statement in the additional affidavit that (if the payment related only to 1.1.1986), the disbursing authorities will have to put in enormous effort to work out details of payments, allowances, pensions, leave encashment and gratuity as of 1.1.1986, 1.1.1996 and again 1.1.2006?
KUDOS TO YOU GR8 FIGHTERS PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I CAN BE OF ANY HELP AT HYDERABAD .... LT COL P G MEHTA ,SC
@Satyam Never Jayate: Well, that is all that is needed to convince all and sundry, without revealing any future 'plans', that anyone trying to stall the implementation does so at his, in some cases, her, own risk of being guilty of contempt.
I have some observations which RDOA may consider.
(a)The case was fought by RDOA with UOI,with RDOA representing majority of veterans.The TRIPAS must therefore get the DGL vetted by RDOA prior to forwarding to MOD.RDOA must have a say.
(b) The GOI letter available on g connect gives passing ref of SC judgement of 04 sep 12.The contents of this GOI order say " in compliance of SC order dt 04 Sep 2012 GOI has decided to refix rank pay wef 1.1.86 in conformity with Kerala High Court order of 05.10.1998.The GOI order must have read that the Rank Pay issue be settled in conformity with the sworn affidavit of GOI counsel and directions of SC in its judgement of 04 Sep 12.The ref to Kerala court judgement is of little relevance and will only compound problem and create confusion. The GOI order of 26 Nov 12 link is as given below
(http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/2402365/918747936/name/rank )Regards
Can any one give an illustration from world history if any other country's Govt had dealt their saviours Nee soldiers in such manner as our country's Govt. Shame to all our political masters who are watching as to what this govt is doing to its own soldiers. Would the same Govt have the courage to do such bungling with any Central or State Govt employees in our country. Let them even try to think such arbitrariness. The whole nation will be brought to halt. You all know it. It is because We have no union hence this plight. God is watching if no one else. God willing nation will give them befitting reply in 2014.
@kush:""..nation will give them befitting reply in 2014"; :-) As if other governments in the past had gone out of their way to pay the rank pay arrears or implement OROP!!!
Let's get real. The only befitting reply is going to be a just and early implementation of the rank pay case judgement.
We can lock away any ideas that the average civilian voter is losing much sleep over the issues connected with armed forces personnel and veterans.
@ Corona8.
My point is that now the time has come, we should ask for some sort of Association or Union of our own i.e. Armed Forces. Then probably our interest can be safeguarded. Otherwise these Babus will ruin not only the status and moral of our soldiers but the real spirit of Patriotism.
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