Tuesday, February 19, 2013

Arrears to Retired Officers:IV CPC Rank Pay Case

CDAO Pune has started remitting arrears of IV CPC Rank Pay case to the retired officers to their bankers. Arrears range from Rs38000/- to Rs1.70lacs. Basis of calculation is not known.  As such officers are requested to write/email to cdao pune to fwd the individual work sheet to them as to how the figure  has been arrived at. Copy of same be also sent to RDOA for scrutiny.

The methodology of calculation as has been put on their website: pcdaopune.gov.in; is questionable as it appears point to point fixation without change of basic pay which would apparently change once the deducted rank pay is restored. This method of calculation which is incorrect has already been projected  to MoD for corrective action.



jdosvd said...

I think this would be the trend.......piecemeal payments!!?

Venkatesh said...

Is it possible for RDOA to say what is the correct way to calculate the arrears taking the same samples given in the CDAO web site.I do find many people are too anxious & it would be a favor to them from RDOA side, if they know the correct method

raj said...

sir, pse let us know if u r doing anything for serving officers or do we need to open up a new front to win this war?¬!¬!¬!¬!

raj said...

sir, pse let us know if u r doing anything for serving officers or do we need to open up a new front to win this war¬!¬!¬!

bala said...

In the light of visible disparities and denials,serving officers ought to have opened a strong and active front -particularly on NFFU and grade pays.
earlier the better . wide front or strong unidirectional . choice is yours. of course efforts by RDOA and many others would be complementary and supplementary.

sunlit said...

For evaluating any future course of action, a look back may be useful to consider the discrepancies between the anticipated and actual outcomes in the past.

Mt Col M N Engineer [Retd] said...

As suggested by Venkatesh, can RDOA pl set up a sample calculation for enlightenment of everyone?

Young50 said...

@ Ravi Rao
Pl refer my post in the previous post.

dogra said...

dogra said...
@Young50 ,Ravi Rao,

The letter dated 13 feb 13 appears to be applicable to civilian pensioners and not the defence veterans .

February 19, 2013 at 10:52 PM

Young50 said...

Dear Dograji,
The point I was driving home is that effective date has been clandestinely kept as 01.01.2006 for civilian pensioners and not 24 Sep 12 as indicated in the defense pensioners (pre-2006). At this rate we will be fighting rank pay case till Tenth Pay Commission. God bless faujis!

dev said...

In this Money distribution spree the basics have been put behind the curtains. Basic issue is why these arrears not been given to all officers who were in service on 01 Jan 1986...why to only those who were CAPT to BRIG on that date? It is a shame that we are taking things lying from babus. Can some one throw some light on that aspect or have we gone into slumber cowardly.

corona8 said...

The blog post states, "...is questionable as it appears point to point fixation without change of basic pay which would apparently change once the deducted rank pay is restored...";

Now, that may not be clear to all who follow the subject. I think some of the previous commentators are not too off the mark in seeking guidance from RDOA as to what exactly should've been the procedure for calculating the revised BP as on 01 Jan 86.

Some light could be thrown on the matter considering the long time that has elapsed in the matter.

aaa said...

@corona8 above,
well the way things are going, RDOA may not consider it wise enough to disclose the correct way of calculations on this blog as that may give other (who think otherwise) to frame their replies (correct or incorrect will be a matter of another discussion).

sunlit said...

At the risk of sounding repetitive, or even outright wrong, I'd like to quote the opening line of the methodology document of PCDA(O) Pune which states, "Existing emoluments as on l/1/86 ie Basic pay, DA, ADA, Adhoc DA,Interim Relief l and II are added".

Are we not missing something here? As on 01/01/86 there was a component of basic emoluments called 'Rank Pay' that needed to be added.

By not adding it, the UOI is still not "giving" Rank Pay as on 01 Jan 86 which the judgement directs be done.

The original deduction of rank pay was certainly doubly wrong and that part has now been corrected.

It is for RDOA to advise us all, of course, but as we have been pressing the point that RP is part of pay, the revised emoluments as on 01 Jan 86 ought to have included RP which was effective wef the same date.

So, is there not a case that it was not just the sub-para of SAI/1/87 that called for a deduction of rank pay from the calculated emoluments, which needed correction and has indeed now been corrected.

But its the preceding sub-para of the SAI, that defines how emoluments are to be calculated as on 01 Jan 86, and omits to add that the rank pay as on 01 Jan 86 also be included, that appears to go against the spirit of the judgement.

DS Ramakrishna said...

@ good samaritan, vicky and all similarly placed pre 06 Maj and equi pensioners and families :

This is wrt para 5 of RDOA post of 20 Jan 13 (Taken For A Ride Again), regarding vast gap in pension of pre 06 Maj and Lt Col and equ. Officers with 21 yrs of Commissioned officers have already been taken care of as per the latest orders. However majority of suffering lot happens to be the in-service candidates of tri services who superannuated on putting 12- 19 yrs of commissioned service, over and above the service as PBOR.

Presently what action is in hand with RDOA, IESM and etc for addressing this most serious (fall out of VI CPC PB system and change in promotion policy post AVS I) issue is not clearly known.

Understand nothing concrete can be expected since dignitaries at the helm of affairs are not the affected party.

Presently revised amount of Rs 18205/- is nowhere near the deserving amount, and if this grave anomaly not addressed now, the gap shall keep widening in subsequent Pay Commissions, throughout the life time of pensioners and families, since promotion to Maj and equi is now 06 yrs of commissioned service.

As one time solution to this imp disparity is, we have to file fresh case through some suitable AFT, requesting the authorities for re-designating all pre 06 Retiree Maj and equi as Lt Col (Notional) for retirement and pensionary benefits only, wef 01-01-06. This would help us to receive our legitimately deserving Lt Col Pension since now all officers get this rank in 13 yrs of commissioned service.

To this effect I intend to request similarly placed officers to contact me on
" sopanrdoke16@gmail.com", to decide further course of action and move.Desired advise and legal help may be sought from Lt Cdr Avtar Singh Sir and Maj Navdeep Singh etc, who have already been part of legal battles of AFs post VI CPC award.

Thanks and regards,

Lt Cdr DS Ramakrishna (Retd)
Thane/ Mumbai, 9769976959

February 20, 2013 at 8:17 AM

manu69 said...

@ All. Sir the calculations being given by cdao are all misleading and are intended to confuse.
2. Let the cdao or the MoD show how the starting pay for each rank has been fixed in the integrated scale, WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE RANK PAY which has been an additional component given to armed forces.
3. A lt in 3rd cpc with starting pay of 870/ has been correctly fixed at 2300/. civilian pay fixed at 2200.
4. Capt with starting pay 1020/ in 3rd cpc fixed at 2800/ whereas civilian fixed at 3000/. in 5th cpc 9600/ vs 10000/ EXPLAIN THE LOGIC !!
5. Major with 1550/ in 3rd cpc fixed at 3400/ whereas civilian with 1500/ fixed at 3700/. in 5th cpc 11600/ vs 12000/ EXPLAIN THE LOGIC !!
6. Lt Col with 1700/ in 3rd cpc fixed at 3900/ whereas civilian with 1650/ fixed at 4100/. in 5th cpc 13500/ vs 14300/ EXPLAIN THE LOGIC !!
7. Col with 1950/ in 3rd cpc fixed at 4500/ whereas civilian (DIG) also fixed at 4500/. in 5th cpc 15100/ vs 16400/
8. Brig with 2200/ fixed at 4950/ whereas civilian fixed at 5100/. in 5th cpc 16700/ vs 18400/
9. The calculations being propounded to us is trying to justify the scales which have been wrongly made for each rank.
10 The basis of calculation given out by cdao clearly shows the stagnation without any increments even on promotion.
11. With this evidence available if we cannot get things corrected then ------- ourselves.

Sainathan said...

Ref @Young50 ,Ravi Rao
I have carefully gone through the letter. The letter ref is Government of India,Ministry of Personnel, PG &Pensions,Department of Pension &Pensioners' Welfare letter No F.No.38/37/08-P&PW(A)dated 13 Feb 2013. Para 5 of thye letter reads as follows:
5. In case the pension/family pension in respect of pre-2006 pensioners/family pensioners has not already been revised w.e.f. 1.1.2006, the same may also be revised for the period upto 23.9.2012 in terms of order dated 1.9.2008 and subsequent orders thereto and for the period from 24.9.12 in terms of order of even number dated 28.1.2013.
It is very clear from para 5 that even civilian pensioners have been given the benifit of enhanced pension based on the pay in the pay band only with effect from 24.9.2012, which is incidentally, not in conformity with the CAT judgment or the AFT judgment for AF pensioners

sunlit said...

@manu69:"..Let the cdao or the MoD show how the starting pay for each rank has been fixed..";

That issue is important. But, in that manner of reasoning we'd again be getting diverted from the basics. When we shoot off at tangents from the core issue, nothing gets achieved, not even for establishing the bare outlines of what is wrong and where.

Certainly, the running payscale of IV CPC is a crucial issue. It may need to be tackled legally. But, the most important thing is that at the initial stage of any attempted analysis we have to stay focused on the starting point, viz., the calculation for fixation at the time of IV CPC.

Let the experts advice us all. If the calculation for fixation, on 01 Jan 86, is done by adding RP to (BP+20%BP+DA+IR) and the total arrived at is rounded off to the next higher stage in the running payscale, does that ensure pre IV CPC parity with equivalent civilians or not?

Mind you, the addition of RP for fixation is just that, for fixation! It ensures the ranks of AF Officers maintain parity vis-a-vis the posts of civilian counterparts which were "equivalent" during III CPC.

After such a fixation is done for AF Officers, RP would, of course, be paid separately each month.

I repeat, again, the deduction, now corrected, may have been only half of the problem.

By this reasoning, wasn't not adding RP to emoluments as on 01 Jan 86 also a "deduction"?

After we obtain clarity on this, we can certainly pose the question as to how the running pay scale was formulated.

If the CPC calculation itself shows that the revised starting BP of a Maj was 3600/-, how was the starting stage fixed at 3400/-?

If by adding the rank pay, the revised basic for the same Maj works out to be 4050/-, or 4200/-, then that's where the starting stage for Maj should be in the running scale.

But first of all, we need to see how calculating the emoluments with the RP added affects inter-se parities with civilian posts.

amar said...

What about the DA on enhanced pay?Also its effect on subsequent pay commission??

good samaritan said...

@ D S Ramakrishna

Your point is well taken. Let us work towards the same.

Satyam Never Jayate said...

@RDOA, your post, particularly "The methodology of calculation as has been put on their website.....is questionable as it appears point to point fixation without change of basic pay which would apparently change once the deducted rank pay is restored. This method of calculation which is incorrect has already been projected to MoD for corrective action.

While we will send you copies of the worksheet(s), please advise us what is the correct method of calculation so that we know how much we have been short-changed by.

Just Like This said...

RDOA, please give us the correct calculations. PCDA (O) cannot change it now.So it is not a trade secret they can use in court.

Sanket Sudan said...

Calculations by the PCDA(O) have been posted on their website and are in conformity with the government letter of Dec 12. The problem is with the Government letter which we all very well know.


I have arrears amounting to Rs 125,000.00 today in the bank.I am a member of RDOA.My details are below:-
Rank as on 01 Jan 1986 -Major
Promoted Lt Col(SG) _ 29 Apr 1988.
Retirement _ 31 Jul1994.
Re-Emp - From 15 Sep 1994 t0 06Jul97.

Very many thanks to Maj Dhanapalan and

Work Sheet if received will be sent as desired.

Lt Col(Retd)Chandra Kant Kaushik.

Ravi Rao said...

I checked from CDA , the work sheets will be sent to Officers in the 1st week of April.

Sanket Sudan said...

How payh asb eenr evisedo n ll1ry6 .,,.
A. Existing emoluments as on l/1/86 ie Basic pay, DA, ADA, Adhoc DA,
Interim Relief l and II are added
B. 20% of Basic pay is added to it
C. Pay is now fixed at next stage above total emoluments so arrived
Earlier the rank pay was deducted from sum of A and B above before fixing the pay in next above stage, This time Rank Pay has not been deducted.

Gk Sharma said...

dear col kaushik
could u pl clarofy what was ur payin dec85and what was fifed on 1.1.86.how much service u had inthe rank of maj as on 86.i am 69 seniority and had 17 yrs of servicebecame lt col in nov 88.will they fif of maj at 3400 irrespective of no yrs ie say from 11to 18 yres

sushil said...

I have recd Rs 19,962/- as arrears of Rank Pay.I was Capt as on 01 Jan 86.The calculation method is not known.CDAO has informed that they shall send the work sheet by email from next mnth onwards & all the arrears which were due have been disbursed and no further arrears wud be released.

Venkatesh said...

I have done rough calculation wrt the amount that i have received
I have recd around 33200.I presume they would have deducted an income tax of around 3000 @10%.Hence the total amount would have been around 36000(all rough figures). I am assuming that i did not get any increase after 5th PC from 01 Jan 1996.
Out of this amount i need to take out interest component from 01 Jan 2006 to Feb 2013.This works out to be around 9000(again rough figure) making my total till 31 Dec 1996(start of 5th PC) as around 27000
I was a Capt on 01 Jan 1986 with 7 yrs service& i became a major in Dec 90.
Hence i would have got 9600 from 01 Jan 1986 to Dec 1990.This makes my earning in the rank of Maj to be around 17000/ an average increase of 17000/6 =2900/year which works to around 240 /month (including all DA etc)
By above my Capt' pay has gone up by 200/month & Maj's pay has gone up by 240/month
I may be totally wrong in my assumptions.Hence please take it with a pinch of salt.They are all rough figures.How ever one does get the idea how it could be


Respected Friends,
My earnest request is not to calculate the arrears with any method because it woun't tally. It is not intended that way at all. the present scenario is that babus have assumed the role of house hold master n treating defence veterns / personnel as their domestic helps. there is total lawlessness n nobody is intrested in controlling. it is only God who can help. because we r to be blamed for our flight. because we are use to bear injustice. we are hesitant to come to the street to expose selfish high headed people who believe they are above law. in the wait for justice since many years some of our senior veterns took journey to heavenly abode. we few more r left. as we are use to bear injustice n old now. let us forget n forgive babus. we gave our youth to nation, can't we fullfill ego needs of babus n few politicians. i have forgotten.
jai hind.

Narendra Aswal said...

Dear friends,
1. I was commissioned on 12 Jun 1982 and became acting Capt on 08 Jan 1986. Am I entitled the arrears?
2. In case not,then what about those officers (junior to me)who were Capt on 01 Jan 1986 by virtue of serving in field area but reverted to Lt on 02 Feb 1986 onwards after coming to peace station.In this eventuality, my juniors would be drawing more pay than me.

Col(Retd) NS Aswal

corona8 said...

@Narendra Aswal: Yours is an interesting case. It all might depend on how the BP was originally fixed in 1987, wef 01 Jan 86, for the Field Area Officers in the acting ranks of Capt. If the pay-fixation then fixed their BP as Capt, by deducting RP, then they would get, in all probability, the benefit of re-fixation now without deduction of RP.

If in 1987 your BP was not fixed wef 01 Jan 86 with deduction of rank pay, then there may not be any change in respect of your original re-fixation in terms of the GOI letter.

But, even in 1986, the field area Capt would have drawn more pay than you as on 01 Jan 86, so that is not something that arose out of the recent rank pay matter.

jdosvd said...

I have heard that banks have been instructed to disburse revised pension and arrears(due from Sep 2012)in the first week of April 2013 due to overall fiscal deficit constraints of the Govt.


Dear all , seasons greetings.
Now that the cat is getting out slowly about the RANK PAY case, there are various interesting/misleading calculations galore.

From the figures actually available from different mails/blogs, one is under the suspision that somebody has played some mischievous game some where definitely.

The arrears range from few thousands to about Rs.1.2 lakhs,only for the last 20+7 years(upto 2006 and till 2012).

I theink that whole concept of RANK PAY got diluted .
what seems to have gone could be:
as on 1/1/86, RANK PAY was deducted from the BASIC PAY.let us say this was" X"


What could be the difference in the old and new basic pays if only the rank pay amount is added and PEANUTS.
Of course, DA could have been added and the IT also could have been deducted.

I personally request maj.dhanapalan to go thro this and discover if any new mischief is done?

Actually, after calculating the NEW BASIC PAY, THE RANK PAY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDED(BECAUSE OF THE PROCEDURE) That means they have just folled all of us and gave the NAME ALSO AS"PANK PAY ARREARS, MAY BE THEY WANT TO ESCAPE THE WRATH of SC, Next they will submit to the SC that they have paid the rank pay arrears and all got and everybody is happy.

Only maj dhanapalan and RDOA can sit and dig the whole issue.the babus must be laughing away as we pick up coins thrown at us.

I am extrememly sorry and my apologies are there if i am wrong


sunlit said...

@WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN : Your speculations could be as correct or as misleading as any other; these could cause as much confusion or clarity as the ones that have gone before. As far as the Govt is concerned, they have now done for everyone what they did in the case of Maj Dhanapalan, viz., fix basic as on 01 Jan 86 by, this time, not effecting a deduction of RP.

Other question marks could be:

*whether or not rank pay should also have been added to BP+20%BP+DA+IR for working out the emoluments for fixation as on 01 Jan 86?

*whether or not the calculation as on 01Jan96 should also have been redone by not deducting the new rank pay as on 01 Jan 96?

*whether or not the running payscale of IV CPC itself should've been revised keeping in view the revised calculation figures of IV CPC itself for the starting stages of various ranks?

These questions have been raised, but never fully clarified anywhere.

sunlit said...

@manu69: "...5. Major with 1550/ in 3rd cpc fixed at 3400/ whereas civilian with 1500/ fixed at 3700/. in 5th cpc 11600/ vs 12000/ EXPLAIN THE LOGIC !!..."

Unfortunately, that civilian could also ask for the "LOGIC" why he had been fixed at 3700/- and the Maj, now, at 3600+600. There's no end to it. :-)


Major(PC Regular) was promoted substantive major on completion of 12 years commissioned service.Pay starts at 2300 on day of commissioning and on ist of second year Rs.2400 and so on completion of 12 years Rs.3600 + Rank Pay 600 is to be Rs.4200. Where is the doubt of Major's pay of Rs.4200 entitlements. How Rs. 3400 is being worked out? From Major NS Gill


Major's service PC(RC) 12 years and PC(SL) 14 years which was subsequently reduced to 11 years and 13 years respectively. Effective date is not remembered. I was promoted on completion of 13 years of commissioned service being PC(SL)(RO)on 25 Jul 1996 and my pay was fixed 11600+1200 RP.Major NS Gill

bala said...

For GILL- sher gill.YES , all those Majors with 13 + years of service would be legitimately eligible for pension on pay of LT COL of 13 years.Please therefore work your way through like DANAPALAN ,after waiting for some time for any amendments that are expected.Let the dust settle down and fire (rapid or salvo ) your weapon-YOUR RIGHT....

Just Like This said...

We fret, we fume; we offer suggestions; we make noises about Contempt Petition; we ask whether PCDA (O) (note there is nothing about NPO or AFCAO) is paying us correctly, and if as per RDOA's cryptic statements, PCDA (O) is not, why.

Just one question, and I do not know if I am in the minority of One, why cannot RDOA email members/non-members/similarly situated officers what the calculations should be?



Please delete my comments dated 12 Feb 2013 published at 10.41 hours/pm and 11.10 pm.Major NS Gill

Just Like This said...

@Maj Gill, you have to log into your blog and then you can delete your comments.