Monday, March 18, 2013

Reply Recd from Chairman COSC on the Implementation of Hon'ble HSC order of 4 Sept 12:IV CPC Rank Pay Case


 1. Please refer your letter dated 21 Jan 13.

2. The implementation order to comply with Hon'ble Supreme Court verdict dated 04 Sep 12, upholding Kerala High Court Order in the case of Maj Dhanapalan (Retd), has been issued vide MoD ID No 34(6)2012-0 (PayJ Services) dated 27 Dec 12. Services HQ are in the process of implementing the order of MoD inspite of having serious observations on the provisions of the letter.

3. MoD orders for implementation of the court verdict meet only partially the aspirations and the expectations of the affected officers and fall much short of complying with the judicial verdict in letter and spirit. As Chairman, COSC, I have taken up specific issues with Hon'ble RM vide my DO dated 18 Jan 13 which are detailed hereunder :-

(a) The MoD order has restricted the benefit by making the court order effective for those officers who held the rank of Fit Lt and equivalent as on 1.1.86 instead of stating with effect from 1.1.86, despite the court order using this term. This effectively means that officers promoted to the rank of Fit Lt and equivalent after 01 Jan 86 will not be covered by this order.

(b) The integrated Pay Scale of IV CPC and the minimum pay for each rank (Paras 3(a) (i) and 6(a) of SAFI 1/S/87) respectieely have not been amended. This in effect means that there would be two types of pay scales for the same rank/service seniority in the currency of 4th CPC.

(c) The Basic pay ceiling prescribed by the 4th CPC scale, i.e ~ 5100, has not been amended. This has resulted in denial of fixation benefit (i.e 20% of pre-revised pay) for officers holding the rank of Brig and equivalent as on 1.1.86 thus occasioning a
legitimate default

(d) The MoD orders have not amended the pay fixation formula of 5th CPC which also envisaged deduction of Rank Pay in pay fixation, thus it restricts the ripple effect of the court verdict which is integral to the said verdict.

4. Services HQ are constantly in touch with MoD. The Services reps have held a series of meetings to discuss the issues raised by me with officials of MoD on 30 Jan and 15 & 22 Feb 13. The Armed Forces, in these meetings have explained in detail all the major inconsistencies in this case. The MoD has been found to be positively inclined and have supported the views of the Services. A detailed case on the infirmities and anomalies arising out of the ibid implementation order along with a few live examples of actual fixation and problems arising thereof, have also been submitted to MoD on 31 Jan 13. MoD in turn has asked CGDA, MoD (Fin), MoF and LA (Def) to offer comments on the issues that have been highlighted. The latest meeting on the subject was held on 06 Mar 13 chaired by AS (A) In the meeting MoD appeared inclined to accept the Services view on the shortcomings in the Govt letter. Accordingly a detailed note to be signed by JS (6) is being prepared for seeking views of Solicitor General. Further a committee is also being set up to crystalise the problem definition and the views of the stakeholders.

5. I wish to re-assure you that the Services are completely seized of the matter and are following up the issue regularly. I am confident that the MoD will take
necessary action on the subject and issue suitable amendments in the Govt letter to ensure immediate and correct implementation of the Judgment in its letter




dev said...

That is a great step taken.Kudos. This imposes some faith in the system that there are people to wipe the tears in the establishment. Gratefulness to COSC. Finally justice seems done.


This is a wonderful news. it is most self-assuring that the matter is being taken up at the highest level by out top echelons. thanks a lot to COSC AND RDOA

aaa said...

MoD, three service HQrs, CGDA, MoD (Fin), MoF and LA (Def), JS(6), AS (A), Solicitor General and committee being set up to crystalise the problem definition and the views of the stakeholder (all in COSC letter given above); well that is lot of people to solve an issue which in view of most of defence personnel should not have been there.

Kudos to all for ....

Dasila said...

1. What are these appointments as LA(Def) & AS(A)mentioned in para 4?
2. Question arises as why MOD didn't consider the draft letter forwarded by the Services HQ. Secondly, before issue of implementation letter dt 27 Dec 12, why MOD didn't feel it necessary to consult the stake holders ? These issues need to be answered by the MOD.

sunlit said...

It's gratifying to learn the Services HQs are seized of the matter and also that the letter, reproduced in the blog-post, does validate some of the previous assumptions.

Murarilal Agrawal said...

1.The mistake committed in 1986 could be solved by 2012 (26 years)that to by litigation
2 Al most Similar mistake again there mainly due to improper watch and careless implementation of SC verdict by high authority of services/ GOI/MOD
3. It is difficult to understand That our services/GOI/MOD system is so poor that even after SC verdict nothing correctly implemented
4.We hope things will be sorted out without new litigation.

Maj Sarjoo Prasad said...

I have a very simple question in this regard. Non implementation of the verdict of the highest court by any institution or authority is utter disregard.Part implementation of order do attract the contempt and therefore on the next hearing we must insist for the same.We should convince the Hble SC for avoiding their direction.

Maj Sarjoo Prasad said...

I have a very simple question in this regard. Non implementation of the verdict of the highest court by any institution or authority is utter disregard.Part implementation of order do attract the contempt and therefore on the next hearing we must insist for the same.We should convince the Hble SC for avoiding their direction.

sunlit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sunlit said...

Para 3(d) of the letter reproduced in the blog-post very correctly mentions the need to rectify the formula used at the time of V CPC.

This should, however, not restrict readers from recognising, that in addition to the reversal of deduction of revised rank pay at the time of V CPC, there would also be a need to revise the rank-wise pay-scales of V CPC so as to conform to the same principle, cited at para 3(b) of the quoted letter for IV CPC, to bring the starting pay of each rank at V CPC in line with the revised and corrected emoluments ( without deduction of revised rank-pay) and for preventing stagnation at the top of each scale

Lt Col B S Chaudhary said...

It is heartening to learn that Chairman COSC has taken up the matter of rank pay case with the GOI/MoD,appropriately highlighting the shortcomings of the implementation instructions issued on 27 Dec 2012. It is apparent that the diluted version of the letter and creation of more anomalies in making payment of the arrears to the officers were intentional.It was very crude and highhanded way of conveying to the serving officers and veterans that baboos and accountants rule the roast and they have the guts to ignore the directions of Hon'ble Supreme Court. It is perhaps with the tacit support of politicians in power. Even layman understands that the judgement of 4 Sep 2012 had cascading effect on pay scales of 5th and 6th CPC and therefore needed upward revision. Let us not forget that after independence in 1947 officers of three services had to forgo almost 45% of their pay and allowances as the central government unilaterally decided to reduce their salaries and bring them at par with other services with the assurance that an edge for their entitlements shall be maintained in future.However this position has been gradually and purposefully obliterated as could be seen from the 3rd, 4th,5th and 6th CPC reports.Other day there was a comparative table in the blog of Maj Navdeep Singh indicating the huge difference in the authorization of various allowances of Defence Services and BSF/CRPF/ITBP/SSB/CISF personnel.For the improvement of allowances to these central armed police forces, credit was attributed to their DGs who happen to be from IPS, considered closer to decision making apparatus at the centre. Now it is the bounden duty of the COSC and ESM organizations to mount concerted pressure on the GOI to bring improvement in the compensation package of the three services.Perforce we should take clue from DMK/SP/BSP/TC for the tactics they adopt while dealing with UPA government at centre. Nevertheless RDOA is doing a wonderful job therefore we should reinforce their efforts by contributing money to them so that they can contest the case by hiring best brains in the legal fraternity, not forgetting that Sh. Harish Salve, Shri Mahavir Singh and Gp Capt K S Bhati have appeared before Hon'ble SC to plead our case.It may not be off the mark that till date more than 11000 officers have been paid arrears of pay by PCDA(O)/NAvy/AIF but how many are members of RDOA out of this lot, perhaps not more than 25%.There are plenty of options available with RDOA to handle the present case. Let us help them financially and morally so that RDOA achieves the goal.
Lt Col(Retd) B S Chaudhary

kush said...

@RDOA and all concerned.
First of all I appreciate your hard work and the pressure built up by you and your team. There are some positive signs. However, we must not be over enthusiastic by this kind of letter received by you. This could again be a ploy to calm our mind and efforts so that we may forget all that they have done to us. Then, general elections and uncertainty and then another promise that these points will be looked into by the 7 CPC. The euphoria will die down and MOD and all other sadist BABUS would have achieved what they wanted. Please look into the design behind all these actions as enumerated by RDOA in their post. It all points to one common thing i.e. delay tactics. If they had take so much time and so many meetings with so many persons just to understand what the HSC has given in their JUDGEMENT, then they do not deserve to be IAS Babus at first place. It is a real shame if that is the case. But no, I don’t think they have any less calibre. These are very shrewd and clever people. They know how to keep their political masters happy and then keep doing what comes to their mind under the signature and approvals which they have earned expost-facto.
My advise to RDOA is not to wait for any magic to happen as it will never be allowed by these BABUS. As time will tell. But since the cause of action for contempt of HSC has already arisen, we should file the contempt proceedings against MOD preferably naming the officers who have misinterpreted the Judgement of HSC as early as possible. Hire Mr. Ram Jethmalani as our lawyer, if the need be, but we must win now when the iron is hot. Let’s know if you require additional contributions. I assure RDOA on behalf of all veterans that scarcity of funds will not be there. There are very many veterans who will send the help. All veterans here should strengthen morally and financially the hands of RDOA by giving their nod in this blog. THREE CHEERS TO US ALL

Msk Rao said...


.....At the end of day, when the RESULTS will be out for 7th Pay Commission Pay Scales ....



...even COSC, 3 Sevice HQ, RDOA etc will not be able to come to their rescue... as no body is going to pay any heed to them..

DS Ramakrishna said...

@RDOA and dear all, as very rightly commented by Lt Col Chaudhary and kush, it has been cunningly planned and implemented delay and denial tactics of concerned politicians and Babus. Reasons we all know : limitations/restrictions with serving and helplessness of veterans. It is high time to unite, add on our strength, gather all desired logistics and be ready to follow the path of Hazare and Ramdev, gather and exhibit the strength and even be ready for jail-bharo (if need be), so as to take our all issues to their logical end, before 2014 Gen Election get closer. This Now or Never like situation. Dare to plan, all will join merrily. God Speed and All the Very Best.

Unfocussed said...

Another committee, consultation with stake-holders and promises to "look into the matter". This will go the way of the high-level committe constituted in JUl 2012 to look into 6th CPC anomalies which gave its report in Aug 2012. A report which was promptly buried after a vague sounding promise by the PM on I day. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
appaji said...

RDOA should not waste any time and should not take the Armed Forces top bross seriously since they have their own intrest. Lt Col Choudhary and Kush are very correct. We will provide all the support to RDOA for fighting the case.

Parvinder Bir Singh said...

Could not agree more with Kush and Lt Col Choudhary. Past experience proves it is futile laying hopes on AF Brass. RDAO has achieved a lot without their help.RDAO only can take the matter to its final conclusion by filing contempt case.

appaji said...

RDOA must file a contempt and also ensure that officers involved in the mischief are punished

Msk Rao said...

AF Top Brass are only interested in their own Re-employment.

The more the money they save for pcda, MoD(Fin), MoF etc the more AVSM, PVSM ....etc they earn at the cost of lower rung AF personnel.

jai dhanapan, rdao & co...their effort is 100 times more than VSM, AVSM, PVSM bar...

bala said...

Yes ,I totally agree with ibid feelings and views of veterans.This letter at best --so far so good .But NOT GOOD enough.
Yes u can convey thanks to COSC,but dont trust of these evasive letters of sympathy /part support of larger issues of veterans .He is simply silent and evasive of basic and fundamental issues.
Dish out a letter specifying issues that require resolution and his esteemed support , as his responsibility of veterans issues is involved.--Yea ! the GLORY of AF which every body is enjoying is due to valor and sacrifices of veterans.
He has been simply silent and evasive on Due rk pay of 800 of LT COL substantive by ts instead of 600 of lower rk of Major.This has to be 800 on 1.1.1986 and 1600 on 1.1.1996.That is inherent in original GOI formulations .These have been tampered and mutilated while drafting those so called SAI in 1987 1nd 1997 , also SNI AND AIR FORCE I
@RDOA - pse do look into ,apply u mind and initiate a letter to all those associated viz.. COSC,AG Br ,COAS ,PCDA O&p,CGDA,DESW,MOD ,IESM ; so that , this pt is not again evaded for another 27 yrs despite clear adjudication on all these associated and related issues ,namely violations of provisions of 4th CPC in regards to RANK PAY . This denial and delay now , is cause of evasion of NFU in AF ,after it was introduced to other GOI services..

Col MS Raju said...

Dear Veterans,

The HSC judgment orders refixation of basic pay and granting of rank pay wef 01 Jan 1986. While basic scales for refixation have already been worked out by RDOA. But how much rank pay to be given to each rank wef 01 Jan 1996 (in Vth CPC) has not been worked out. I have already worked out the rank pay of each rank and published in various blogs earlier. The rank pay forms part of basic pay, runs parallel to basic pay and earns all those allowance which basic pay earns. See the following working out of rank pay wef 01 Jan 1996 (Vth CPC).

Capt’s unrevised rank pay on 01 Jan 1996 200
Add DA @ 148% 296
IR I (Proportionate to the basic pay) 6
IR II (10%) 20
40% of unrevised rank pay 80
Total 602
The revised rank pay for Capt wef 01 Jan 1996 can not be lower than Rs 700/- pm

Major’s unrevised rank pay 600
Add DA @ 135% 810
IR I 18
IR II (10%) 60
40% of unrevised rank pay 240
Total 1728
The revised rank pay for Major wef 01 Jan 1996 can not be lower than Rs 1800/- pm

Lt Col’s unrevised rank pay 800
Add DA @ 135% 1080
IR I 24
IR II (10%) 80
50% of unrevised rank pay 320
Total 2304
The revised rank pay for Lt Col wef 01 Jan 1996 can not be lower than Rs 2400/- pm

Col’s unrevised rank pay 1000
Add DA @ 135% 1350
IR I 30
IR II (10%) 100
40% of unrevised rank pay 400
Total 2880
The revised rank pay for Col wef 01 Jan 1996 can not be lower than Rs 3000/- pm (following ranks : rank pay ratio in IV & V CPCs)

Brig’s unrevised rank pay 1200
Add DA @ 135% 1620
IR I 36
IR II (10%) 120
40% of unrevised rank pay 480
Total 3456
The revised rank pay for Brig wef 01 Jan 1996 can not be lower than Rs 3600/- pm (following ranks : rank pay ratio in IV & V CPCs)

As rank pay forms part of basic pay it earns all those which basic pay earns and it is granted over and above the basic pay. The rank pay being separate and runs parallel to basic pay, it has to be worked out and refixed as above in Vth CPC. If it is fixed this way every veteran’s retirement benefits and pension increases to expected extent. Why not we give a thought and insist UOI for the same.

kush said...

@ Col M S RAJU
Your logic of revision of Rank pay at the time of implementation of V CPC is totally correct. I fully agree. RDOA should take up concrete steps in this regard with HSC only. As you know nothing much is expected of these Babus and our uniformed brotheren. We have to depend on legal remedy only.

CL BEDI said...

Dear all,

Feedback from Chairman COSC, although belated, must be appreciated. By virtue of his position in Armed Forces, expression of his concern has positive weight and can be taken as a ‘warning signal’ to all concerned in GOI. It cannot be put aside lightly. How many in similar position in the past, have taken such a visible stand?

We must remember that letter under reference is not a placating effort at his own initiative. It is in reply to a request letter d/d 21.1.13 sent by RDOA to him.

In this respect, we must appreciate efforts being made by RDOA also who are exploring every possible avenue to achieve end results.

I shall appreciate if RDOA can put on blog its letter d/d 21.1.13 addressed to Chairman COSC for knowledge of and appreciation by all.

dev said...

The other important issue handging fire and stands manipulated and delayed by BABUS is the BROADBANDING OF DISABILITY PENSION of superannuation/coming out on terms of engagement of officers in line with people boarded out. Gen Oberoi had won it in 2011 and it was almost done but again Babus took this to SC and the matter is rotting there in some corner. I would request RDOA to take up that matter in the service of disabled soldiers and give some update here.Unless we fight things out...nothing can be expected from babus of MOD.I expect some update from RDOA on this please.

wg cdr n sridhar said...

the letter for implementation of the rank pay case was issued on 27 dec 12,after due consultation with CGDA,mins of finance & with services hqrs. The cosc assurance for the amendment to the letter dated 27/12/12 based on the indication of agreement of the mistake by the MOD, MOF CGDA cannot to be taken with pinch of salt with the attitude of civilians who have been taking ARMED Forces of big ride, they will stab from and hit us below the belt.

In my views RDOA should take recourse by filing contempt writ petition in SC.

lets hope for the best

Raj said...

Thanks aaa.As if the Babus were not party to this sabotage. This trend will continue unless RDOA or somebody else files a contempt petition in SC and get directions to prosecute these fifth columnists for treason.We are being treated like dogs and kicked around with impunity. Just to borrow words from leader of the opposition and Mr. Justice Katju.

Col MS Raju said...

Dear Veterans & Serving Officers

The rank pay deducted while fixation of pay on 01 Jan 1986 in IVth CPC has now been rectified and it has been paid for IVth CPC to those officers whose rank pay was deducted. The same mistake with more impact was also committed while fixation of pay on 01 Jan 1996 in Vth CPC but this has not been rectified. MOD knowingly failed to adhere to the “Consistency Convention” which is an important accounting convention.

What ever is now paid to the officers whose rank pay was deducted on 01 Jan 86 is the income accrued by the officers in IVth CPC era and not the income of year 2012-13. Treating this arrears as income of the year 2012-13 is against the “Accrual Concept” which is again an important Accounting Concept. MOD knowingly made this “Accrual Concept” as “A cruel Concept”.

Basic Pay, Rank Pay and for that matter even NPA of medical officers do all accrue all those allowances which basic pay accrues. Though they form into basic pay but they are separate entities. Rank pay can not be merged to basic pay for fixation of basic pay and its comparison with civilian counterparts. But it has happened in Vth CPC. The unrevised rank pay of IVth CPC was added to the basic emoluments and it accrued DA, IT I, IR II and 40% of it and became three-folds. But only two folds were deducted from the total emoluments leaving one-third of this three-folds in the basic pay and then the basic pay was fixed on 01 Jan 1996. Such revised basic pay is far behind comparison with the basic pay of civilian counter parts as it includes one-third of the three-fold revised rank pay. In Vth CPC, both, the Basic Pay and the Rank pay will have to be worked out separately they being separate entities and thus the basic pay refixed need to be compared and brought at par with civilian counter parts. In Vth CPC the revised rank pay will be minimum three-folds of the unrevised rank pay of the IVth CPC with all those abovementioned allowances added to it. See my working out in my previous blog. In doing all this, the MOD has neglected “Entity Concept”. Evidently all this was a conspiracy to downgrade the AF Officers status.

Can’t we approach Comptroller and Auditor General of India to conduct audit of pay commission recommendations and pay fixation of AF Officers in IVth, Vth CPC & VI CPC and give their report to the Government as to how MOD has willfully neglected the Accounting Concepts/Principles to attempt to conspiracy against the honest organisation of AF fraternity. CAG may be requested to conduct Social Audit also to bring out the conspiracy. We ran into heavy loss and if we keep quite, our silence amounts to abetting the crimes committed by the MOD staff.

appaji said...

Really a good idea. RDOA should keep in mind the suggestion of Col MS Raju to suffocate the MOD and Politicians

bala said...

Rev of rk pay on 1.1.96 , cal of RAJU is rational and legitimate.
Now - How to go about /pursue ???? .
Individuals /gps/ asso may take lead,besides RDOA .
For RDOA contempt action---
Another pt , ( i.e)If,PCDA (o) has paid say about 15000 officers at an average rate of say even a lakh ,1,00,000 ( actually less ). The amount would be
15000 lakhs- 150 crores. OH ! it is a fraction of that amount of about 1600 crores as per UOI affidavit. even ,if we add PCDA (p) fig ,it may be another 150 crores.Many are yet to rec.
Some body can file RTI to get actual pay out by 31 may 2013 and att to the petition.
Keep adding ideas/pts

Col MS Raju said...


Judgment of 08 Mar 2010 spells out interest to be paid from 01 Jan 1986 on rank pay arrears.

UOI files I.A. 9 to recall the Orders of 08 Mar 2010

Judgment of 04 Sep 2012 relaxes the burden of interest which will now be paid from 01 Jan 2006.

What the MOD gained and what the veterans and serving officers lost?

See the figures below;

The total interest from 1986 to Dec 2012 on the total rank pay from Jan 1986 to Dec 1995 is 144.25% (If you don’t believe ask me will send the excel sheet)

The total interest from 01 Jan 2006 to Dec 2012 on total rank pay from Jan 1986 to Dec 1995 is 42%

As per UOI and SG the total burden to exchequer is Rs 1600 crore calculated prior to filing I.A. 9 based on Honourable Supreme Court Order of 08 Mar 2010.

Rs 1600 Crore calculated by MOD includes interest at 144.25%. The interest is 944.93 Crore & the total rank pay for 20000 officers is Rs 655.07 Crore

After the Honourable Supreme Court judgment on 04 Sep 2012 the interest rate came down to 42% only. The rank pay of Rs 655.07 crore accrues interest of Rs 275.13 Crore at 42%. The total burden on the exchequer now is Rs 930.20 Crore. (ie 655.07 Crore + 275.13 Crore)

What is achieved by UOI is that the MOD saved Rs 669.80 Crore (Rs 1600 Crore – Rs 930.20 Crore). This total saving is on interest (Rs 944.93 Crore – 275.13 Crore = Rs 669.80 Crore.)

The total rank pay of Rs 655.07 Cr plus 42% interest there on Rs 275.13 Cr is for all three services.

DS Ramakrishna said...

@RDOA and all concerned,comments and course of actions recommended by well equipped blogger Veterans Like bala and Col MS Raju are the need of the time.

GoI/MoD's lack of concern and sensitivity towards the issues of AF community and Veterans, is most evident from lack of respect to various AFT orders/judgements. As is posted in Maj Navdeep Singh's blog ;
"Adversarial role of the defence ministry:
The role played by the defence ministry is adversarial towards litigants. Petitioners are viewed as ‘Enemies of the System’. Even settled and covered matters are not conceded, government counsel not briefed fairly and all pleas are opposed as if it is state policy to increase litigation and live off the miseries of poor personnel. As the joke goes, if a person files a plea that Sun rises from the East, it would be opposed by the Defense Ministry stating that it rises from the West. Unwanted, forced and imposed multiple litigation up to the SC is the order of the day and shockingly most appeals filed by defense ministry are against disabled soldiers".

Existing GoI/MoD's self created miseries towards the most honest
population of the nation, needs to be brought to the notice of HSC. This would further strengthen our contempt case of ongoing issues.

All Govt orders right from "lowest pay in the pay band" for pre 06 pensioners till latest one of eligibility of " IV CPC Rank Pay" all concerned, involved in approving the file-notings and signing the Govt Orders/letters, involving, willful misinterpretation, at implementation level, (of the actual instructions/judgement awarded), are required to be sued by name. This will discourage them to continue playing mischievous, with imp issues of service community.

appaji said...

Agree with Sri DS Ramakrishna.The Honourable supreme court to ease the burden of UOI has modified judgement and interest is paid to vetarans w.e.f 1 jan 2006.RDOA must plead the honourable supreme court that UOI should not charge Income Tax to veterans because of savings awarded by Honourable SC to UOI. I think rankpay case effected officers are made to suffer heavy losses at every step. A group of officers must represent to the IT authorities for the exemption

Col MS Raju said...

Aren't the contents of the letter of implementation of the IVth CPC rank pay case flouting the judgment of HSC? Then what are we looking and waiting for.

appaji said...

I request RDOA to note that MOD is continuously throwing spanners and delaying the case and the Honorable supreme court is accepting. The MOD has achieved the dilution of Veterans arrears by requesting review/recall of the 2010 judgement. It is now further diluting the benefits of judgement with in correct implementation orders and negotiating with third parties. Now RDOA should play the offensive game to end the fight(One should not forget that the LtCol grade pay dilution to 8000 in the past)

Red Indian Cowboy said...


Who was HAG ADJUTANT GENERAL vsm, avsm, pvsm…bar…on 1.1.1986???

It is not possible that he did not know that Rank Pay was deducted for Capt to Brig in 4th CPC wef 1.1.1986

Being HAG, he could not care less, as he got his avsm, pvsm …bar…& ….of course re-employment…???

Ravi Rao said...

With due respect to COSC & RDOA.
How much can we trust the UOI/MOD especially the Babus RM being alaweyer himself cant he understand simple court language and needs help of a Committee to interpret for him,it isall being done to delat & stall the issue. Though it is going to be asking too much from RDOA but we have no choice but to go to court firstly to challange non payment of interest from 96-2005, value wise what is the Rupee today compared to then also they are deducting money towards IT at todays rates. As it is the way the judgement is implemented draws Contemp.
Now that the process of payment by PCDA has commenced we can move court. RDOA may please let us know their plan so that we can send our contribution for the cause.

appaji said...

Yes we are ready to contribute for the cause.

kush said...

Yes, I am too ready to contribute Rs 10,000.00 for the cause.

good samaritan said...

@ Ravi Rao

I too am ready to pay.

Aerial View said...

all your answers on (in 4 instalments)

Young50 said...

Dear All,
1. Though COSC letter may be considered as a silver lining in the cloud and a candle light in the end of the tunnel for all those affected officers both serving and veterans, the following points need deliberations:-
(a) In the recent years the only time COSC made its presence felt was to get PB 4 for Lt Col & equi that too with a truncated GP of 8000, becoz Adm S Mehta stood his ground. Now I have my own doubt about the outcome of this effort since the scoundrels incl the office of SG/LA (Def) who joined up deliberately to degrade the Service fraternity even after a court battle of 27 years are going to read your note on file and come out with some Einstein's theory to eradicate the errors. COSC points fall well short of the glaring anomalies for Eg., it is silent on 6 CPC scales to be amended as a ripple effect.
(b) AS (A) mtg was held on 06 Mar 13 and the JS (G/Air) is yet to send a note to SG and incidentally this Karnataka Cadre IAS officer is on reversion to his State. The new incumbent will spend rest of his career trying to decipher this case.
(c) Deduction of rank pay in 5 CPC is a debatable topic even amongst our learned veterans and the same view point was shared by even Maj Navdeep in his blog immediately after SC judgement. He also said the judgement is applicable to only offrs holding the rank of Capt to Brig as on 01.1.86. But RDOA was hanging on to their logic and addl affidavit signed by three Secys regarding applicability. But why wait now since it has not been followed by the UoI now. I really don't know what stops a contempt petition since the core issue is not time limit but the applicability of the judgement which has been grossly truncated and the pay scales of even those affected offrs have not been revised.
(d) MoD is trying to give an impression that it is a news to them that there are some errors which would be looked into. Entire country is allergic to Committe being set up by this UPA Govt. Except Justic Verma Committe on anti-rape laws REST ALL HAVE FOUND ITS WAY TO KABBADIWALA.
2. RDOA pl do let us know what is the hold up? Would you act atleast after the learned SG gives his view point drafter by some Under Secy sitting in some dingy room in the corridors of power ! Jai ho! God save the faujis of the great nation! Jai hind!

sunlit said...

@Young50:"..Deduction of rank pay in 5 CPC is a debatable topic.." : Though it had been raised long before it became mainstream on these blogs, it is still not clear whether the issue was required to be raised specifically during the litigation.

Notes 18 and 39 in this blog post do indicate the issue was discussed, but with what logic that deduction has not been reversed would probably be clear after all the RTI instalments are in.

Young50 said...

@ sunlit
1. Notwithstanding the issue of rank pay, revision of BP as per fixation formula of 4 CPC would automatically and logically lead to upward revision of BP in 5 and 6 CPC.
2. The effort put in by Aerial View is tremendous and it is quite revealing to know that the IDAS guys have played spoilsport in the whole game.Its been like India Vs Pak when it comes to defence auditors and fauji offrs. I do not want to reveal more in this blog what all happens when they visit field fmns for their audit.
3. Probably MoD is in a tight spot as I infer from the copies of file notings. Our aspirations have been duly addressed by someone in the heirarchy with some extra grey cells. But the end result is what a group of anti-faujis wanted it to happen.
Nevertheless I still feel contempt application would ex[pedite the matter apart from absolute clarity in the judgement of SC this type and probably some strictures to the entire bureaucracy. Review of interest period or rates may not be ruled out going by the way Justice Lodha is handling THE Sahara case.
Bye for now, lets us keep a tight vigil on this front! Jai Hind and good night to everyone in this blog.

gentle said...

I think that the best way to deal with the issues involved would be like "prepare for the worst , while hoping for the best !"
There is doubt in every one of us directly / indirectly involved about the mind set of the bureaucratic in the matter!
It is however left to the RDOA to filter all the information available to it & we do hope that it would act in the larger interest of the veteran community sooner than later!

bidyut chatterjee said...

I fail to understand how and from where the government babus got the figure of Rs.1600/- crores when most officers are receiving payments only in thousands.

aaa said...


'Deduction of rank pay in 5 CPC is a debatable topic even amongst our learned veterans and the same view point was shared by even Maj Navdeep in his blog immediately after SC judgement'

have you sir gone through the copy of notings on aerialview blog. have u seen how the comments of SG have been twisted to take a particular line? have u seen how they have brought out that on the two critical issues they should seek legal opinion, however, due to the directions for issue of Government letter within a week, they did not? All the issue that are in the environment including this blog are on the notings but unfortunately based on some argument somewhere, some line somewhere has been taken as the basis. The moot point is why the government did not go back to HSC if there were doubts that the HSC order is silent on some issues. Let me ask, if a judgement is delivered in favour of a civilian employee that all benefits will accrue to him wef a particular date, is it the practive of the hon;ble courts to tell Government that his basic will be changed, his TA/DA will be changed, next increment will be given based on the revised basic, his HRA will be changed, his LTC entitlement will change and so on. No, these are administrative details that administrative authority is required to work out correctly. Similarly, in the rank pay case, if rank pay is applicable wef 01 january 1986 then whether it is applicable wef 01.01.1996 and 01.01.2006 also, whether fixation table will change etc is not for the hon'ble court to give in the judgement as per my limited view and understanding.

I would therefore urge all to look at the issue positively and pursue the matter.

Bloomberg said...

@mskrao, @redindiancowboy

ADJUTANT GENERAL at ARMY HQ as on 01.01.1986 & 01.01.1996 are to be fully blamed for RANK PAY DEBACLE & NOT BABUS

Let us highlight the names of these stalwarts for all , their families & children to to know……

…what a shame!

bala said...

Yes !There are several issues, along with the re -fixation and rk pay from 1.1.1986.Lots of facts ,info and analysis is surfacing/emerging - result of effort by several veterans.

1. I am for big support to RDOA , as expressed by several persons.

2..There are more than 10,000 seriously affected veterans .Most of them were deprived of legitimate pay and pension for decades - the extent being around 10 -30 %. When they join hands ....,it is more than 10 kilometers long chain ( Notional ex )- considerable FORCE/STRENGTH.
3...If ,Very small gps ,like that TELLIKURCHI asso (in TN ) can do so much - WHY NOT WE ?????
4.... Matters were misrepresented/neglected/denied/evaded by several individuals and depts of MOD for decades.Successive AGs, Chiefs , COASCs,PCDAs...were a party.Therefore ,we cannot expect or depend on them to resolve/restore every thing..
WE HAVE TO PURSUE-FIGHT-NEGOTIATE.....Legal advise/opinion expressed by some individuals,how ever eminent or well wishers ; is not ultimate .

5.....Legal approach on several connected and associated issues have to be resorted ( ultimately ). This is in regards to the aspect brought by " SUNLIT " and views by NAVDEEP- who has done so much to AF fraternity.Must pursue in that aspect also.

sunlit said...


Well, the financial year is about to end. Hopefully, most of the remaining arrears will get paid in the 1st week of April.

RDOA have some time still for further action till 10th April.

aaa said...

hi all,
concluding part of the notings is available on aerialview blog. it is a very clear case of deliberate misrepresentation by the DS and Dir level bureaucrats. the advise of LA(def) and SG that it is to be implemented in the same manner as for maj dhanapalan has been construed to be taken as if other officers are also to be paid only for iv pay commission and that too with the rider that one has to be drawing rank pay as on 01 januar 1986. this is height of absurdity. the question of LA(Def) as to how the officers who got promoted after 01 january 1986 to a rank holding rank pay will be considered, there is nothing in the notings about this. it is all a big nonsense. let us hope that rdoa will take the case to logical conclusion. CGDA has always had a different perspective for faujis and they have proved it here. CGDA officials should be made to pay (literally) for this ill and malicious advice.

Ravi Rao said...

To All Vetrans & Serving Personnel

The apathy being shown to AF vetrans & Serving personnel is presumably based on the premise that there has been no full scale war for over 41 years nor is there likely hood for the next Generation . The policy makers & their advisers hence want to give a cold shoulder & crumbs to AF ( It will be more evident in the 7th CPC)and upscale the Police & CPOs. We cannot expect our Top Brass to do much except putting requests to deaf ears in vain. We vetrans should do some thing which should draw International attention as well so that the Supreme Commander & Govt is put to shame in the context of how the AF community in this country is being humiliated & neglected. Can we poolin our ideas through RDOA & IESM. Regards

DS Ramakrishna said...

@RDOA and all concerned, with reference to the file noting, as possessed through RTI application and available at Arial View Blog (we all are obliged and grateful to you Sir).
Under the pretext of willful contempt of HSC judgement by GoI and concerned authorities in CGDA/ MoD/MoF/DoF etc, and denial of legitimate dues of AF Serving and Veteran community w.e.f. 01-01-86 till date;

a. Can we request COSC and Service Chiefs to arrange meeting of PM, RM, RRM and Heads of MoD, MoF, CGDA, DoF, LA (D) and etc etc with all interested/affected Veterans, at appropriate venue at New Delhi, in Presence of Gen VK Singh (Retd.), so as to discuss the Rank Pay Applicability issue, face to face and apprise UoI/MoD to take necessary actions, in a time-bound manner to implement HSC judgement, so as to pay due amount to all eligible similarly placed serving/retired commissioned officers of the rank of Capt to Brig and their equi in Navy and Air Force, with effect from 01-01-1986.
b. If govt does not budge to our demands in a given time-frame, can COSC alert PM/RM and Supreme Commander, regarding possible outcome of Contempt of the HSC Judgement, including that of possible punishment can be awarded to all involved in this, mischievously conceived and willful conspiracy to deprive of legitimate dues of military (serving and retired) community.
c. Col MS Raju, Bala, Aerial View and Ravi Rao, if answer to above is 'Yes', then pl tie-up with RDOA/ IESM / IESL / AIESW etc so as to help/ensure desired meeting earliest and let concerned authorities read the mood of affected Veterans. regards.

corona8 said...

@DS Ramakrishna: "..Can we request COSC and Service Chiefs to arrange meeting of PM, RM, RRM and Heads of MoD, MoF, CGDA, DoF, LA (D) and etc etc..."

Are you sure you don't desire the Secretary General of the United Nations to be in the picture as well?

Col MS Raju said...

@DS Ramakrishna,

Your suggestions are welcome. But let RDOA do their bit before involving veterans. RDOA being our association can certainly involve all veterans to jointly fight the case. But let the HSC actions over first.

There is an alternative as to how veterans all over the country can raise the issue in parallel line if RDOA accepts. It is all collective conspiracy and it started in slow-poison motion from IV CPC and gained the present state. HSC Judgment of 04 Sep 2012 has been flouted by UOI. Flouting of the HSC judgment is evident from the implementation letter issued by MOD on 27 Dec 2012. The law says when any court’s judgment is flouted in the jurisdiction of the same court without the Court/Higher Court orders, it has to be reported to civil administration with the evidence of such flouting. The HSC jurisdiction extends to whole of the country. Let veterans with the copies of the HSC judgment and the MoD’s letter of 27 Dec 2012 complain in writing to their DC/DM of their area, give ample time of 3 months and then file RTI application against DC/DM. Then see what happens. Veterans who are affected by deduction of rank pay on 01 Jan 1996 in Vth CPC can do this as they are affected by the HSC judgment and the MOD directly denied it by their letter of 27 Dec 2012. It is a clear cut flouting of the HSC judgment. We are all duty-bound to bring out flouting of court’s judgment and if every one of us does it in every district in entire Nation it won’t go against us as we are all duty bound to do it being affected lot.

DS Ramakrishna said...

@Col MS Raju Sir, thanks for appropriate analysis of my comment
and alternate approach suggested
for entire Veteran Community.

@corona8: I do not find any reason for you to feel offended. As one of the affected Veteran(hope you happen to be one) one deserves to think and let this type of Meeting/ Gathering take place, at least once in the history of Independent India. Because such a willful denial to this scale and open degradation/humiliation of entire serving and veteran community, has never been forced before, by its own Govt and In-Charge Ministry. Not very sure but, GoI/MoD could be the Pioneers of this Grand Achievement of "Malicious Designs" against Brave, Honest and Selflessly dedicated lot of, Soldiers and Veterans of the Nation.

I am sure I can not motivate U to understand the seriousness of the issue. There are ways to express emotions and thoughts and Col Raju's response to my comment can be a good learning for you. Any way thanks for u'r comment. Best regards.

DS Ramakrishna said...

@ corona8, also learn to dare and think something out-of-box, from bloggers like Ravi Rao. Best regards.

Ravi Rao said...

Let all of us flood the Three Chiefs & RM with letters aking for Grievience Adalat in Delhi at any convienient time.
If OK by RDOA & IESM we may be given a draft to be sent or we can draft it ourselves. Date & Time can be co-ordinated by RDOA & IESM. The venue should be South Block so that we can hand over the minutes to President.

corona8 said...

@DS Ramakrishna:"I do not find any reason.." I'm sure you don't. Reason is a scarce commodity and one can't hold people responsible for not having enough of it.

"..think something out-of-box.."
No thanks. Shoe-box logic is best left to people who specialize in it. As for me, I'm glad the RDOA team has a rational approach to resolving our issues in-spite of the lunatic fringe which seeks to jump on the veterans' band wagon from time to time.

Though, I'm a bit puzzled to find, in comments on this blog, calls to serving personnel for breaking provisions of acts applicable to the armed forces.

This manner of irresponsible online behaviour can spell uncalled-for trouble for the blog, the blog owner and the worthy cause for which the blog is intended.

DS Ramakrishna said...


There have been instances of removal of comment by the blog owners in the
past as and when found to be unfit/
You deserve to improve your on-line behavior and concentrate on publishing your valuable opinions and ideas, to support and strengthen the very purpose of this blog for its owners and users. In another words " mind your own business", and happy blogging, regards.

RDOA said...

@All. Kindly refrain from unsolicited comments/behaviour on the blog. It is for pragmatic thinking and not a medium for provocation.
The idea for a meeting with powers to be is past. RDOA had met in person the RM on earlier two occassions, once before we went to court and then again when the judgment was given in 2010.Outcome was denial and IA from UOI.
Be it MoD/CGDA/Def Fin, MOF, all are aware what they are upto and the consequences of non compliance.
Kindly let RDOA handle the issue.

Maj Sarjoo Prasad said...

I shall stand by

GaviniVN said...

@Col MS Raju

As calculated by you, the Rank Pay should have been revised (minimum) wef 1.1.96:-

Capt- Rs.700/-pm (unrevised Rs.200)

Maj - Rs.1800/-pm(unrevised Rs.600)

Lt Col- Rs.2400/-(unrevised Rs.800)

Col - Rs.3000/-(unrevised Rs.1000)

Brig -Rs.3600-(unrevised Rs.1200)

Instead, they have just DOUBLED the rank pay wef 1.1.96, which had a devastating effect upto 31.12.05 AND altogether removed wef 1.1.2006

Cleverly Rank Pay got vanished and they have introduced Grade Pay and applied to one and all.

The same Pay bands were applied to AF unlike Civilians. Whereas, the rank pay element should have been added in arriving at the pay scales of AF.

gentle said...

I am curious to know the latest development in this case at the level of chairman COSC & the rest of the officials involved in the decision making as referred to in the correspondence! Otherwise it would simply mean nothing tangible has happened as predicted by the majority of us! Could RDOA throw some light on this matter which has aroused the curiosity of the veteran community at large .Enough time has lapsed between the intervening period of this letter appearing & now !!