The application of UOI seeking extension of time limit by another 12 weeks filed on 27 Nov 12 was heard today in the Court of Justice RM Lodha. UOI submitted that as on date they have paid 11000 officers both serving and retired of all the three services. As such they needed more time till 31 Mar 13 to complete the process.
The Court was Magnanimous and gave UOI time till 31 May 2013. The court ordered that all beneficiaries both serving and retired should be paid by that time.
The Court was apprised by Advocate KS Bhati, appearing for RDOA and others that the HSC order of 04 Sept 12 was not being implemented in letter and spirit and further anomalies were being created. Since today was hearing on the application moved by UOI the matter rested there.
Let us wait for further developments.
The Court was Magnanimous and gave UOI time till 31 May 2013. The court ordered that all beneficiaries both serving and retired should be paid by that time.
The Court was apprised by Advocate KS Bhati, appearing for RDOA and others that the HSC order of 04 Sept 12 was not being implemented in letter and spirit and further anomalies were being created. Since today was hearing on the application moved by UOI the matter rested there.
Let us wait for further developments.
62 comments:
Government knew as to how many officers are to be paid at the time of seeking only 12 weeks for implementation. Another 12 weeks have already passed. That amounts to double the time already passed. Still more time sought upto 31 Mar 2013?
Extension of time granted is upto 31 Mar or 31 May !
Please correct.
Sir,
Pretty surprising to know that SC was so magnanimous (quite undeservingly though) to UoI so as to not only give time till 31 Mar but further extended to 31 May on its own (I'm sure Sarkari Vakeel would be smirking at RDOA!)
And to twist the knife further, astonishingly SC did not seem bothered when RDOA's Senior Lawyer rightly pointed out as to how UoI was shortchanging officers by disregarding the spirit of the SC's judgement and UoI was implementing the same by its own conceited logic (pls recall eligibility has been restricted to as on 01 Jan 1986 rather than with effect from 01 Jan 1986.
So what next? Is there any light at the end of this winding and seemingly unending cul de sac? Not many would have the patience and energy to stay positive hereafter.
PS: @Dev's comments above seem quite prognostic, unfortunately!
The blog-post stated, significantly, "Sincetoday was hearing on the application moved by UOI the matter rested there".
I'd wondered what manner of representation by RDOA would be possible in a previous comment.
I think, a further view can only be taken after all, or most of the disbursement has been completed.
As the blog post sagely advises, "Let us wait for further developments".
THANKS TO RDOA FOR PAST EFFORTS AND RESULT IS SEEN NOW. I AM SURE THEY WILL TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION AT RIGHT TIME. HAVE PATIENT, BE HAPPY WHAT EVER WE ARE GETTING AS FIGHT WILL CONTINUE. COL AJIT SINGH
is id mar 31 or may 31. can some one clarify /
I am not clear NOW on RDOA stand. I feel contempt of Court would have sent strong signals to SC as well. RDOA ( the affected party in this case )WAS NOT EVEN asked for its views !! Has RDOA has lost the direction / interest ? HOW can SC give date longer that asked for, it is a NEWS.
Hon. Sec. RDOA,
We were eagerly waiting to see that RDOA argue on contempt by UOI by already defying the HSC order by crossing the deadline. Instead further time line is accepted un-opposed.
The UOI stated outgo of about 1600 crs for asking time line, but i don't think even 100 crs is actually paid for all so called 11000 cases. Have they given list of 11000 officers with amount who were all been paid, if not was it not fit to challenge the figures instead of accepting as is where is.
The prima-facy w.e.f being converted to as on 01-01-86 and defusing that increase in between the pay commission on getting higher rank subsequent to 1-1-86, not correcting the same rank pay deduction in 5th cpc would have been brought first before allowing time extention.
Sir we are terribally disappointed. I know all this might have been argued. if u kindly explain verbatum all that is argued in this blog it will re-assure all of us else we will be guessing only. that is dangerous for our continued faith. kindly pardon me. there is a gross injustice caused by implementation order. which is not been challenged till date.
RDOA is losing the battle of credibility with retd officers. Initially, they did a great job but the current perception is quiet different. They seem not even bothered about it.
Dear all concerned, whatever said and done, about all ongoing issues post IV CPC implementation and Rank Pay issues, things are very clear, present day executives, bureaucracy and judiciary is not interested in restoring the lost decorum of AF services. All our efforts to seek deserving dues shall willfully be turned down by intelligent legal / judicial pronouncements.
The only workable solutions: Assert for revamping of manning of existing MoD, DoEW and even so called CDAs by the suitably selected / qualified uniformed personnel deputed from Tri Services for the period not more than 3 to 4 yrs. If this is achieved most of the things will fall in its place, in due course. Good luck and all the very best.
RECTIFICATION of ANOMALIES in restoring RANK PAY
Hello! RDOA,
1. You rightly brought to the notice of HSC that ANOMALIES being created in restoring RANK PAY to BASIC PAY~ Good job done ..... well done...
2. Now these ANOMALIES are to be filed with HSC for RECTIFICATION
I see some unfair criticism on the approach of RDOA in dealing with the UOI. At the outset, it must be appreciated that but for the efforts of Maj Dhanapalan and later, by the RDOA, the Rank Pay issue would have been long lost/forgotten. It requires a lot of patience, dedication and allocation of personal time and resources to take on the UOI over such a long period of time and to come out with a favorable outcome.
Whatever we have got as compension for the wrongs inflicted on the AF officers cadre is to be considered as a bonus, due only to the untiring efforts of RDOA. RDOA deserves all our gratitude and praise for fighting on behalf of the wronged officers. It is not appropriate to take out the calculators and work out the details of how much we ought to have got and then blame the RDOA for not doing enough.
It is best to leeave it to the RDOA to plan the future strategy and the course of action in pursuing the case in the supreme court, and if possible, contribute to their efforts in kind.
Itis very easy to criticise. All affected officers received some amount.It is all due to the selfless efforts and devotion to the common cause by the RDOA. If we cannot appreciate their will and zeal to fight,we have no business to criticise. I want ask,how many officers have contributed for cause to RDOA. RDOA has done excellent job.
Col R S Sekhon,Veteran
@Alok Asthana:"...battle of credibility...";
Do share with others what your specific issue is. What was your rank as on 01 Jan 86, what was the BP fixed for you, where has it been refixed now and what is the quantum of arrears received by you. Importantly, where, how and by what amount do you feel there is a shortfall.
Perhaps, some constructive suggestions could then follow. But vague, unfounded and blanket statements hardly serve a purpose in the present context.
1.Once SC has given decesion that Rank pay is some special payment to Defence Personnel other than basic pay
2.Govt accepted for IV pay commission and arrears paid Pension will be revised for personnel retired In between 1-1-86 and 31-12-95
3.The same has not accepted for V pay commission that is wef 1-1-96 as the thing exist today.
4.Has the Govt Accepted serial 3 above the cascading effect as per letter circulated by some one immidiately after SC order on 409-12 woud have been there.
5.It is suggested that RDOA must act and fight on the line 3& 4 above.
6. we all retired defence personnel must contibute morally finacially and by all other means So that RDOA has ZEAL to fight for all of us.
With Regard to all
Yours Lt.Col(Retd) Murari
For Those losing faith in RDOA and for those supporting RDOA,
As Col Sharma has indicated hearing on 11.3.13 was for UoI's plea for 12 weeks more. The Hon'ble Supreme Court has given till the end of May 13 for the payments.
Many who are urging RDOA to step up and file Contempt case(s) might, in their zeal to see some battle of the wits, forget that the grant of time till end May 13 effectively seals that route. If by end May all payments have not been made, then there is some room for manoeuvring. So we need to bide time.
What can we do in the meantime? First, remember WE are in this together. So each of us has a role to play by using our brains and knowledge and filing RTI applications asking for the why, who, how, what prompted the CGDA/MoF/MoD to resort to Daring Subversion" of (1) the Cabinet Committee's approval of the report of the Fourth CPC by inserting that insidious clause (ii) in para 6 (a) of the SAI 1987; (2) by briefing the Fifth CPC to insert that deduction of Rank Pay, wrongly quoting the insidious deduction in the Fourth CPC as if it has Cabinet Committee approval for re-fixation on pay scales on 1.1.1996, (3)CGDA audits all payments, then how come it did not refer to the Govt Resolution before it cleared 10 years of malpractice etc etc.
I am sure 46000 brains working in cohesion will make the CGDA/MoF/MoD realise our unity and in unity the strength.
So stop moaning; get up and fight. Don't term the doles given as if they are manna from heaven. The CGDA/MoF/MoD is depriving us of fortunes and trying to satisfy us with crumbs.
Oh, by the way a RTI costs Rs 10+1 for an Indian Postal Order and Rs 18 for Speed Post or Rs 22 for RPAD. And the CPIO has to provide a coherent reply else we can go all the way up to the CIC.
Dear RDOA and Aerial View. Please do not mistake me as losing faith or doubting the noble intentions and sincerity of purpose of RDOA. The implementation letter and calculation sheets are standing testimony to outright defiance of SC judgement in its letter and spirit and the affidavit filed by three Secys. A large number of affected offrs have been left in the lurch denying them their rightful dues with interest wef 01.1.86 and revision of pay and allowances in V and VI CPC where rank pay is the axis for refixation. Further, they have created two classes of offrs with of different basic pay wef 02.1.86. On 31 May 13, Govt wud have paid the offrs who are elgible in their perception or misinterpretation of SC judgements. What is the chance of any further hearing on this extn of time which has been granted. No further date has been fixed or no ATR needs to be filed by the Govt. Under these circumstances, whatelse the RDOA is looking for to file contempt or waiting to be censured by the SC as to why they waited so long from 27 Dec 12 to come crying like a child for milk.Justice delayed is justice denied and all the judges are retiring in the near future and for a new team to understand and appreciate this case and deliver any judgement to undo the damage done by UoI in a practicable time-frame looks like an impossible task. ( Zero, if I am not branded as a pessimist). It is surprising that GP Capt Bhati could put across some points when we were not even issued notice as a respondent (as I understand from the post). Can anyone throw light on this without having to expose in a blog their guarded strategy. I am sure a large no of offrs have these feelings in mind but I have not bothered to publish. Once again no offences meant to anyone! It is not the matter of money but the last chance to restore our dignity and right place vis a vis civilian officers before 7 CPC !Jai Hind!
@ Air Martial
Sir, In case we do not recieve reply to our RTI query, what is the next step. I am located in Maharashtra. Regards
I personally feel UOI has again given false feed back to SC that till 11-3-13 11000 officers hav beed paid their dues .basically none of the officer has received full dues
What has been paid is just arrears of pay for the period of service while Till date none of the officers has been paid ,BY PCDA(P) the Arrears due to revision of pension for the period of 1-186 to 31-12 -95.
Basically we shall not ignore it and must apprise the SC immidately.
@Young50, this is my personal opinion. I do not profess to write for the RDOA.
Your logic is sound but let me give you an example: - when Sahara did not pay up the Hon'ble SC has held it in Contempt and today a lawyer of the stature of Ram Jethmalani is representing Sahara.
UoI has already fielded the Ld Solicitor General and has lost. We have waited 7 years - from 2006 - for the dues to be paid. Another 10 weeks would only a few drops in that ocean. In the meantime we should engage RDOA person-to-person as it is not divulging its strategy, and rightly so. Why not write personal letter to RDOA expressing our views?
@ Ravi Rao, if the CPIO in the Public Authority (MoD/MoF/CGDA in this case) does not provide information within 30 days, you have to file a First Appeal (and the officer nominated as FA is given in the PA's website on RTI). FA has 45 days to provide information or uphold the decision of the CPIO.
If you are not satisfied you can file a Second Appeal with the Central Information Commission and it may never come to the point where you need to file a case in the High Court in Mumbai or in the Supreme Court.
Please type RTI in the search box of your browser and you will get a lot more info. If you want it easier, send me email ID and I will send the information.
@Murarilal Agarwal,
AFCAO has paid 77 serving officers and 7 serving (medical) officers' NPC from Army/Navy has held up their payment.
Retired officers will be paid starting with those retired in 1986 first commencing 15.3.2013 as indicated.
PCDA (O) website will provide details of officers paid or you can file a RTI asking for names of officers paid arrears date-wise till 11.3.2013. You cannot ask how much has been paid to each individual as it requires Third Party permission. PCDA (O) has to provide the names within 30 days.
Come on, try it. Just costs Rs 10+1 for the IPO and Rs 18 for speed post.
I feel there is some positive movement on these issues. Having waited for 27 long years- few months won"t make a difference.Waiting for some more time- do have patience.
Yes! things are much better than what it was in 1986 and 1996 Now,We have internet and awareness has gone to a level that the legitimate and genuine issues cannot be buried under carpet as it happened in 1986 and 1996.
Keep interaction going.build up strength both in ideas and combined /unified approach to derive.....all.
Those who got arrears should subscribe to RDOA membership and also some donation so that we build up strength with secretarial and legal efforts for on going issue and remaining issues for and before 7 th CPC.Projection papers need to be adequately prepared with inputs and feed back by one and all .
Finally some individual issues can be supplemented by actions like DANAPALAN has thought and initiated.
Today I saw a very thoughtful and useful projection by IESM to MOD/DESW .Also do support and interact with IESM also.
In all other services of GOI and others ,even small organised groups do lot in these matters--- Look at that effort by KALLIKURCHI taluk in TAMILNADU to derive that Supreme court Ruling on ," NO DISCRIMINATION on PENSIONS BASED ON CUT OFF DATES ". Very useful to all.
DANAPALAN ,a name and his action deserves gratitude and a simple-thank u too! I for one struggled in 1987 and 1988 to get this PAY FIXING ( it is more of pay fixing even though it is refered as rank pay issue ) resolved/rectified-But was not succesful and lived with those glaringly visible denials/deprived pay and pension.Struggle is still on...
For All:
AFCAO has put up
"LIST OF OFFICERS UNDERTAKING /ADDRESS/BANK DETAIL NOT HELD ON RANK PAY ANOMALY YEAR WISE-Last updated as on 11.3.2013".
Site has requested to send information earliest possible.
Dear All the issue is not who got how much arrears since the belated and deflated value of the arrears are not going to serve the needs we faced three decades ago.The issue is The govt never wanted to down grade the status armed forces.The IV CPC wanted to upgrade Armed forces by recommending rank pay over and above rank pay as part of basic pay.Then how come MAJORS CORRESPONDING CIVIL SERVICES POST IS IN PAY BAND IV TO DAY.Is the executing staff on behalf of Govt authorized to undo govt's/pay commission's decisions?Why the govt is trying to protect him/her?Should armed forces be loyal to govt or to these staffs who execute orders?
Still not clear as to why "non inclusion of 5th and 6th CPC re-fixation " in the GoI letter was not brought up with SC at the time of hearing ?
OR idea is to get first 'what is being given' and after 31 May rake up the issue ? as "non-implementation of Court order"
@ Unknown : Pl cross check Major's pay band. I am sure it is PB III and not IV as you commented. Let us know if it has been recently upgraded.
ENGAGE RAM JETMALANI
...AFV's are at a critical stage in their lifetime
....never has AFV's been so vulnerable to protect their hard earned honour & dignity
.....time has now come to engage Ram jetmalani to fight the rightful dues of Rank Pay Case for AFV's....to protect their honour & dignity..
It is irony of Justice in the Indian courts of law. You know that somebody is committing a crime(robbery)as reported by RDOA Senior lawyer, yet an extension is being given to continue to commit it further(murder). Isn't this bankruptcy of justice - and lawlessness on part of the UOI? Is it not the duty of the Supreme Court to ensure that its verdict is being implemented!! Assuming the 27 Dec letter of MOD will be modified(being positive) the PCDA will have to start from scratch!!!What a waste of effort and time. The implementation of the rank pay case will have to be done under the supervision of the Supreme Court.
@DSRamakrishna
Unknown has stated that civil service staff who are equivalent to MAJOR are in PB 4. and why not majors is his question.
Airing generalized grievances and giving expression to frustrations with the system have their place too.
But, consideration may be applied to arriving at concrete and clearly defined issues by way of inputs for RDOA as I have submitted elswhere.
MAJORS EQUIVALENT CIVIL CADRE IN III CPC ARE IN PB IV AFTER VI CPC BUT MAJORS ARE IN PB III AT PRESENT. THAT WAS MY POST ON MARCH 13.
@sunlit, before I rest my fingers for a while, I draw your attention that RDOA has been apprised of the options available - general, discerning and wild.
It is up to RDOA to decide whether to take seek clarifications or proceed on some course of action and apprise us or continue to watch patiently (for what ask many of the commentators on my blog and cellphone callers). Frankly, truthfully, I have no answers since I have been a late entrant to the Rank Pay issue.
My Dear AFV friends,
We are all greatful to RDOA for having fought for our cause. but we are veterns that too AF veterns. no one take us seriousally including judge. God himself had made 3 stage for human life i.e. childhood-- the most beautiful one. every one cuddle, love n care. youth-- I don't know about civilians, but we AF people's life went in just obeying orders of superiors without questioning. n dedicated our lives adjusting to every odds of life, taking pride in suffering. vetern-- It is a jockers stage. no one take us serious. one become burdon to exchequre. every one provide lip service, but heart of heart don't take our words or problmes seriousally as we are in sideline. some natorious people play with, least realising they once will be old. may god bless boos.
but " let RDOA or any one do any thing, write no of pages grievences to any one including rm, pm,n any one fact is u get nothing but a simpathy n u go away is if u never existed" this is the hard fact. Else the SC order is clear, RP is not to be deducted while fixing the pay. where as it is deducted as per SAI in 4th as well as 5th CPC. this could have been done as a honest employee of UOI. but boos can't digest thier food without troubling AFVs. I request all to forgive them. may god bless them.
we have served our mother land. let us take this is also service to mother by forgoing our legitimate due. ultimatly it stays with exchequre. our mother would become at least that much richer else everybody is exploiting our mother land in one or other way. let us have a peace that we are true childeren of our motherland.
Jai hind.
1. The minimum pension for pre 2006 retiree has been fixed wef 24-9-13.(no arrears )considering minimum of fitment table instead of minimum of pay band.
2. The same has been fixed wef 1-1-2006 in some cases .This is alarming situation.
3. What I understand , PCDA(P) will issue the revised PPO with consideration of minimum of pay band band and not with minimum of fitment table
4. The above contravercy nees be highlighted suitably at suitable levels.
@Murarilal Agrarwal:"..The minimum pension for pre 2006 retiree.."
What does that have to do with the subject of this blog post, for heaven's sake?
Dear all, now the time has come that our three chiefs to insist on a TRUE PRESENTATION OF THE RANK PAY CASE AND OROP BY RDOA TO PM,RM AND FM AND BRING TO THE NOTICE.
BUT WILL THEY DO IT?
YES THEY CAN
V.SUNDARESAN
dear wing commander,
this is good idea to present the case in nutshell all over again as the whole issue has been diluted to present stage and is likely to be shut down in near future .still better if the so constructed presentation can be put up to HSC in one of the hearings by RDOA .just a thought .
1. As on today lot of issues have to be resolved ,and;or,to be derived - by diverse and multiple approaches and methods.
2. PLEASE....No approach of charity or a sort of begging. Also ,no helpless attitude or keep waiting for GODs help ( like waiting for earth quake to shake/move..). Human effort and activity/action is required.
3..Approach of surrendering/leaving to exchequer -has been genesis of disparity (loss of parity ),down gradation and degradation.No Q of surrendering. Instead , one can do phylontrophy or donation or any other .... This sort of acceptance of irregularity/disparity is also cause of corruption -a sort of evil.
4. Let every body ,RDOA,ESMs,......., put in their efforts. Keep pursuing and appealing with auths,PM,DM,...etc.
%. Judicial route is open and available.Well,judiciary has so far given enough of fire power-one has to pursue and apply/force/fire.Implementation has to be by...do push- " DAKKA TO DEV ".
%. Gather and build up public opinion ,support and pressure.
5. Keep working for greater resolution and clarity of issues.
FINALLY GOOD WISHES AND BEST OF LUCK FOR SUCCESS
@WG.CDR.V.SUNDARESAN(RETD):"...TRUE PRESENTATION..."
Do you have your caps lock on by mistake?
It would be a bit naïve to assume that the functionaries named in that comment are not already aware of the situation.
The contents of the Government letter of 27 Dec 2012 on implementation of the rank pay amount to flouting of the Kerala High Court and HSC judgments. Flouting of the Court judgment/orders are covered under RTI Act 2005. RTI application may be made to DC/DM of the region if the order of a particular court is being flouted in an area under the jurisdiction of that court without taking permission from the court/higher court. May I request RDOA to consult our legal team on this aspect and try this way also so that some investigation may start against the signing authority of the Govt letter of 27 Dec 2012?
Sir,
RDOA may consider taking a cue from SEBI Vs Sahara case and seek prosecution of the 'worthies' who signed Affidavit before hon'ble SC in Rank Pay Case and subsequently failed to honour the same.
Update about SEBI Vs. Sahara case may be read on the following link:-
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Sebi-moves-SC-seeking-arrest-of-Sahara-chief-Subrata-Roy/articleshow/18989647.cms
@RDOASir, Can we check if there is any precent in our Country where a person has been denied full interest on his wilfully with held wages ?, Especially Civil Servants and Politicians ,Regards
I hope RDOA has gone through the contents of article Hobson's Choice on http://sharad10525.blogspot.in/2013/03/hobsons-choice.html
regarding choices available with RDOA to proceed in the case?
I do'nt think we should wait any further & feel the time for approaching the SC again has come.
Deepak Sharma
@Hai All Friends & Gentlemen,
I feel it is time to mount pressure on UOI by all available means. What comes to my mind is, ONE, We must expose the negative mindset of our bureaucrats and apprise our politicians not once but again and again to make & force them to think seriously about our state of neglect by UOI at large. We should ask our local MPs to put questions in Lok Sabha and Rajaya Sabha as to why such glaring anomalies are being created by these Babus at the implementation stage whenever any benefit is announced for AF by UOI or the Judiciary. TWO, Creating awareness among our own people in civil through print media. We should all start writing to editors of all small or big News Papers. You may send an article or write a letter to editors. There should be discussions on important Channels like Times Now, Zee News, NDTV 24x7, IBN, Headlines Today etc, etc. THREE, We should all seek information through RTI sending queries by veterans from across the country and flood the CPIOs of MOD, PCDAO. PCDAP, DOEW, even ask Three Chiefs as to what action have they taken on the anomaly of IV CPC, HSC Judgement dated 04/9/2012 as it affects the Serving Officers as well. Will the moral of our troops not be affected if they do not look after the interest of their own officer class? Will these officers deliver the right results at the time of need? Mind you, gentlemen, only 26% of the officer cadre gets benefit of Selected Promotions. It is this kind of Officers (26%) who are so called the cream of the AFs, who are not in a position to speak or write against the MOD or UOI and the entire army is made to suffer and degrade it-self at their (BABUS) hands at the behest of our own officers sitting at the higher echelons. FIVE, All serving officers should find some time for themselves and raise their voices against this anomaly (IV CPC RANK PAY), THROUGH PROPER CHANNEL within the permitted system prevailing in Services. I am hinting at ROGs, Statutory Complaints initially to their respective chiefs and then to UOI (MOD). We should flood MOD with ROGs as well as with Statutory Complaints. Imagine 30,000 such complaints from serving officers. What impact will it have on the psyche of our politicians both ruling or opposition parties. SIX, We should approach the main opposition parties and explain our point of view and garner their support, as they are the pillars of our democracy who have denied us (AF) our right to protest with an unwritten promise that they will look after our welfare themselves and we may never be required to protest. Gone are those days (before III CPC) when all was well. Look at the position now. We have lost on all counts, may it be Disability Pensions, routine pensions, family pensions, Rank Pay, Status, Warrant of Precedence and so on.
Gentlemen, these are just few ideas which are by no mean comprehensive. We all have toput our head together and prod all possible ways and means to achieve our GOAL.
GOD BLESS US ALL IN OUR SINCERE EFFORTS, I AM SURE ONE DAY THE VICTORY SHALL BE OUR.
-- Lt Col K K Choudhary (retd)
Dear Lt Col KK Chaudhary, I/We are all agree with your recommendations and views. I/We request President/Secretary R D O A India Ltd and my dear Gp Capt Karan Singh Bhati to continue fight in HSC and with GOI/MOD. In case funds are not meeting your expenditure requirements, please put on this media, so that all retired officers who have been paid should contribute 10% of arrears received by them. We are all brave soldier officers who have rendered their youth to the country and now devote their old age wisdom for the future officers/veterans that is the greatest cause to serve the esteemed veterans. With best of Regards, Yours, Major NS Gill
My Dear Maj NS gill What I feel officers even after getting some arrears not contributing the nominal suscription Rs.1500/- (one time )are suscribing volentry .You are taking for 10% do you thik such people will do this.
God bless such Officers.
@NS Gill & Murarilal Agarwal.
Ur suggestion of offrs contributing 10% of the amount recd is good.But let me tell u there are offrs who became members earlier by paying Rs 500/- were requested to pay 1000/- more. There are many who have yet to pay that too.At times we feel that the benefit of the judgment shud have been only for the litigants and not for all.Perhaps may be offrs would have realised the cost of litigation when they would have had to approach the courts individually to get their dues.
As NOK I would like to contribute for this genuine fight. RDOA in good faith has fought for all and not with a selfish motive for litigants only. Please let us know where we have to transfer the amount.
yes let the account number of RDOA be published, so that we can remit funds online
I believe the veterans are all willing to contribute but for their unawareness of the fact as to what is the present funds position and how much is needed by what time. I for one am willing to contribute 10,000.00 immediately. RDOA will do well by posting the Bankers details I.e. bank account, FISC CODE and the branch name
@RDOA,
From Mahabharata, Chapter 2: -
karmany evadhikaras te
ma phalesu kadacana
ma karma-phala-hetur bhur
ma te sango 'stv akarmani
TRANSLATION
You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty.
You were felicitated, paeans of praise were sung in your greatness, you were idolised. You gave Veterans and serving officers great hopes.
Just as you liked the praise, bear the stones of those without knowledge of your MAGNANIMITY in ensuring they also enjoyed the benefits of the judgment.
Many of us have asked whether you need more funding and we still await a reply.
For those who have not paid, Forgive them, for they do not know what they have done.
Air Mshl (retd) S Y Savur
My dear, Gp Capt KS Bhatti Sir, I hope we are forgetting Him and before starting our job sent some Namaskar donations to get His/Holiness"s blessings resulting other party found clues in HSC judgements and were able to avoid giving full benefits to all veterans. I hope we remember those days of our service in Ambala Cantt and how His Holiness blessed us to appeal in SC and the positive result. Even now we can do that and see how we get positive results for all. That donation is to be from all veterans combined from RDOA Account.In case some veterans object, we can share the amount. Now veterans interested to send subscriptions, I am writing here President address for sending their Bank Drafts/All India Account cheques. Col BK Sharma, President, RDOA, Office:- 27A, SFS Pocket -1, Sector 7,Dwarika, New Delhi-110075(Mobile No 09871351203)(In favour of Secretary,Retired Defence Officers Association India(Regd)payable at New Delhi).With Regards, Yours sincerely, Major NS Gill.
My dear Veterans.I was commissioned on 25/07/1983 and was Lt on 01/01/1986, even then I am fully paid member of this esteemed RDOA. Please please, become member of RDOA by paying Rs. 1500 so that their total strength is in thousand and thousand and not less than 50,000 and our family members count in lakhs and lakhs so that we can tilt the scale in our favour by our strength which Govt favours in case of other organisations/associations.Now please join me in praying to His Holiness and Almighty, Formless, Omnipresent, All Powerful GOD, to forgive us for our mistakes/blunders and now we seek thy protection and mercy and bless us in success for our cause of removing anamolies in our pay,allowances and pension etc. yours wellwisher,Major NS Gill
MY comments /Information on comments of Dear Maj N S Gill dated 16-3-13 and subsequent interaction of Maj NS Gill will positively give fianancial strenth to RDOA who takes pains doing all positive efforts for all Retired officers, while all three chief are hardly paying some attention for this.
Yeah,so many comments. GOOD.Lots of facts and info has surfaced from various forums , individuals and blogs.Keep going.
Now stretching ones mental faculties,application of mind based on the surfacing info- lots of points and strength is emerging for resolving on going issue and related issues.Briefly ,three pts:-
1. As SUNLIT has expressed ,the amount due to the officers ,since 1986 /1996 ,,has been (retained )with GOI. Thus ,these amounts can be treated as deposit in DSOP/PPF and accordingly deal- as done by GOI while disbursing arrears of 5 th CPC ,half was treated as deposit in DSOP.Yes ! precedence and practice existed as done by GOI.
2..AS per GOI , definition of rank is," rank held in substantive or acting capacity ." (ref "aerial view blog " RTI obtained GOI letter ). Besides,it is adequately printed in P & A Regs 1954 ,DSR --that LT COL BY TIME SCALE IS SUBSTANTIVE RANK BY PROMOTION . THIS ABBREVIATED LT COL (TS) AND SUBSEQUENT UNTENABLE INTERPRETATION IN SAI 1/S/87,BY EQUATING WITH LOWER RANK OF MAJOR FOR RANK PAY AND FIXING AT 600 INSTEAD OF 800 was route cause ,genesis and begining of down slide of officer cadre since 4 th CPC.Those insertions , in this regard ; is clear mutilation of 4th CPC and Cabinet resolution.
Further proof is abolition of LT COL sel grade rk since 1986,consequent to revision of lowest sel gr rk of unit cdr to COL. Further testimony to that contention is -as on today both COL sel and ts are in same level of basic and grade pay .NFU is highly relevant .In fact NFU was inherent (in built ) in that integrated scale ,even in 1986 ,with rk pay separate.Denial of integrated pay proportional to length of service was a SELF-GOAL.
So,how and why this FAUXPAS (denial/cheating ) was enacted ?????? .That portion of that SAI 1/s/87 stands modified in accordance with other GOI Rules,Regns and practices .-There can be no discrimination based on some sort of cut of dates ( from time to time )
3...If,this is corrected,there would be consequent upward revision of pay of COL,BRIG and MAJ GEN.Those stagnation increments/step up provisions would get invoked.
Ref Individuals and blogs namely-DANAPALAN ,RDOA ,IESM, OTHER ESM GPS ,RMS,SER BENEFITS BY NAVDEEP,SUNLIT,VASUNDRA,HARMED FORCES,AERIAL VIEW ,INDIA OF MY DREAMS,.......etc.Thanks to all for their effort and contribution in this struggle.
It would be good for the cause and on going struggle ,if some individual or an org or a group can compile all the data ,inputs and info in form of white paper as a strategic approach to derive legitimate dues , correct the down slide of AF officers cadre and also take preventive action against future recurrences of these FAUXPASS. Also prepare adequately for inputs before 7 th CPC.
Call for a core gp of volunteers that can be formed either with RDOA or IESM or a separate group at a possible place at DELHI/POONA/BANGALORE/SECUNDERABAD/CHANDIGARH/MEERUT/DEHRADUN......etc ,IS PROPOSED/SUGGESTED. Ideas are welcome. of course,through RDOA...being kind courtesy of the blog.
The serving lot also have to do their bit and veterans to . We cannot leave it to Chiefs to resolve and keep waiting!!!!
The partial abolition of select rank of Lt Col and equivalents was consequent to the upgradation (cadre review)of the post of Bn Cdr (and Sqn Cdrs in the AF),amongst others, to accommodated the bulge created by the large batches of 1965-67 commissioned officers, whose promotion ratios were anywhere upto 1:25. It had nothing to do with the 4 CPC or the SAI issued.
BEECEE in his column and experience as a Services member who advised Pay Commissions had brought out (if my memory serves me right) that the integrated pay scale was Services proposal. He goes on to state that the 5 CPC rightly restored the earlier type of pay scales.
Every ESM organisation runs to the blogosphere and publishes its interactions with the RM, letters to the PM and photo-op with the President. That evokes a sense of higher and higher expectation, which are never met or fulfilled.
If litigation has to be resorted to, then the Principles or War should apply - clear & resolute aim, flexibility to vary tactics, thorough knowledge of the adversary and finally not go to town on one victory for the war comprises many victories - Rank Pay, OROP, NFFU etc etc.
Finally, the Services Chiefs are bound by the respective Acts. They are bound not to reveal the steps they are taking to resolve each issue in the face of an inimical bureaucracy made worse by an Executive that is busy sorting out daily the scams and situations the Government finds itself.
It is better and easier for Veterans to litigate and get justice. Take the example of the Kallakuruchi Retired Officials Association vs State of Tamil Nadu on a 1970 issue and the order of the Supreme Court dated 17/1/2013 in their favour.
Group A officers of Indian Government are upgrading their Gradepay and Prestige in every pay commission and got NFFU.Down grading of ranks and prestige is supported by the Armed Forces top brass in every Pay Commission because of their selfish motives and non inclusion of Armed Forces officers in NFFU scheme is also due to their negligence. RDOA must continue its efforts to settle the issue through legal means only and should not waste time.
contention of distinguished @ AERIAL VIEW on ibid pt .Let me express- on the diverse views and interpretations of cadre review/up gradation/revision of ranks of appointments /abolition of certain rks -
Since CPCs pay scales of AF have been evolved on basis of GOI cadres/grades /posts.. of civilians ;there is need to interpret these also in accordance with these in IAS,IPS,GP A ser...etc.
1.. The revision of rks of lowest sel gr rk of Bn cdr and other staff appts to COL and equivalent started from 1980 onwards and almost completed by 1986.( I was in 18 th yr of svc 1n 1980 and was very familiar ). In fact projections to 4 th CPC were based on that revised rks of appts posn.
2..Rks are only notional . Also let us look at these from civil side secretaries of all types and directors of all sundry. Their pay progressions. They had 100 % NFU since indep.
3..The mind set or premise that an officer of AF with say 20 + yrs of svc with a rk cannot get higher basic pay than an officer of say 15+ yrs with a higher rk; has been genesis and route cause of down slide of AF officer cadre. Every other depts of GOI did not subject themselves to such untenable stipulations based on premise/mind set.
That is where ,we lost . SELF_GOAL?????
4.. the so called bulge ???. So what ! what stopped from giving them basic pay progression without limitations of vacancies/rks/ appts. Civil side they got every thing without limitations of ibid in AF.
5.. in fact many of those appts/posts held by rk of MAJOR and LT COL ( equi ) prior to 1980
have been revised to COL rk .I read this as revision and not up gradation with those changes incorporated.
Debate and expression of views are welcome for greater resolution....
What ever happened to the sit of PCDA below.
It is for ever saying
"we will upload soon.". Any idea any one.
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